Reverse Rominazation Challenge Thread, v2.0

[Xwtek]

⟨m n ng hm hn hng⟩ /m n ŋ m̥ n̥ ŋ̊/
⟨p pp b bb t tt d c cc j k kk g⟩ /p pː~pʼ b ɓ t tː~tʼ d c cː~cʼ ɟ k kʼ g/ (unlike the rest of tense stop, <kk> is always ejective)
⟨l ł ƛ dƛ ƛʼ⟩ /l ɬ tɬ dɮ tɬʼ/
⟨f s sh th x⟩ /f s ʃ θ x/
<r y wh> /r j */
⟨a â aa ɛ e ə i ii o ô u û uu⟩ /a a˞ aː ɛ eː ə i iː o o˞ u ɚ uː/

*= wh is a diaphoneme with different realization each dialect. It's either pronounced as /w/, /f/, or /x/, depending on the dialect used. The standard pronunciation is /x/.

Sample text:

⟨bbɛpp łat kûhmo thiin ôƛehngkkə â whaa məpon abboshə ûsəl gaj thigdƛemet ong⟩ /ɓɛpʼ ɬat kɚm̥o o˞tɬeːŋ̊kʼə a˞ xaː məpon aɓoʃə ɚsəl gaɟ θigdɮeːmeːt oŋ/
(There is no ê in orthography section, but it's present in the sample text)

Also for old challenge: (I remembered having posted this, but it's lost)
m n mm nn /m n m' n'/
b p pp d t tt g k kk /b p p' d t t' g k k'/
f s z h /fː s~z tsʼ h/
v w l r /β ɣ l r/

a e i o u /a e i o u/

/o/ and /u/ are allophone, where /o/ appears in closed syllable or before tensed consonant.

[bradrn]

I have no idea about wh.

Hint: Māori.

(There is no ê in orthography section, but it's present in the sample text)

Good point, that should be ⟨ə⟩. I’ll edit my post now.

[Xwtek]

I have no idea about wh.

Hint: Māori.

Thanks, but that's no help, because Maori does have <w>, and it's pronounced as bilabial fricative anyway. (it would be too close to <f>)

[bradrn]

I have no idea about wh.

Hint: Māori.

Thanks, but that's no help, because Maori does have <w>, and it's pronounced as bilabial fricative anyway. (it would be too close to <f>)

In Māori, ⟨wh⟩ is [ɸ~f]. I intended ⟨wh f⟩ to be /ɸ f/. (Strictly speaking, it would have been better to use ⟨ƒ⟩, as Eʋe does, but I don’t particularly like that letter, so I used ⟨wh⟩ instead.)

[Knit Tie]

n mm nn /m n m' n'/
b p pp d t tt g k kk /b p p' d t t' g k k'/
f s z h /fː s~z tsʼ h/
v w l r /β ɣ l r/

Really close to what I have, actually!

The only thing you didn't guess is the fricatives and the liquids: <z> is /θ/, <h> is /x/, <r> is /ɰ/ that gets deleted post-vocally and in clusters and <v> and <w> are /ʋ~w/.

Anyway, how about this semi-historical romanisation:

m n nh nj ng
p b t th d dh ky k gy g kw gw
v s z ch j h
w r

l q and gh are found in loanwords

a á aa an án aan áán aañ ááñ
And likewise for: e ae o ou u i

[Xwtek]

In Māori, ⟨wh⟩ is [ɸ~f]. I intended ⟨wh f⟩ to be /ɸ f/. (Strictly speaking, it would have been better to use ⟨ƒ⟩, as Eʋe does, but I don’t particularly like that letter, so I used ⟨wh⟩ instead.)

I'm interested in your actual phoneme assignment.

[bradrn]

In Māori, ⟨wh⟩ is [ɸ~f]. I intended ⟨wh f⟩ to be /ɸ f/. (Strictly speaking, it would have been better to use ⟨ƒ⟩, as Eʋe does, but I don’t particularly like that letter, so I used ⟨wh⟩ instead.)

I'm interested in your actual phoneme assignment.

That was my actual phoneme assignment: ⟨wh f⟩ /ɸ f/. As for the rest of the romanization, I don’t really remember what I started with (I didn’t expect anyone would ask!). What I do remember is that you got the voiceless nasals and laterals right, and you assigned most of the stops correctly, except ⟨pp tt cc kk⟩ were supposed to be ejectives, not geminates. You did get ⟨bb⟩ wrong: it was meant to be a bilabial trill, although I would have been surprised if you got that correct. You also messed up the vowel system, although I wasn’t expecting anyone to get that right either.

[Xwtek]

In Māori, ⟨wh⟩ is [ɸ~f]. I intended ⟨wh f⟩ to be /ɸ f/. (Strictly speaking, it would have been better to use ⟨ƒ⟩, as Eʋe does, but I don’t particularly like that letter, so I used ⟨wh⟩ instead.)

I'm interested in your actual phoneme assignment.

That was my actual phoneme assignment: ⟨wh f⟩ /ɸ f/. As for the rest of the romanization, I don’t really remember what I started with (I didn’t expect anyone would ask!). What I do remember is that you got the voiceless nasals and laterals right, and you assigned most of the stops correctly, except ⟨pp tt cc kk⟩ were supposed to be ejectives, not geminates. You did get ⟨bb⟩ wrong: it was meant to be a bilabial trill, although I would have been surprised if you got that correct. You also messed up the vowel system, although I wasn’t expecting anyone to get that right either.

I meant the entire assignment. So, you lost the entire language documentation?

[bradrn]

I'm interested in your actual phoneme assignment.

That was my actual phoneme assignment: ⟨wh f⟩ /ɸ f/. As for the rest of the romanization, I don’t really remember what I started with (I didn’t expect anyone would ask!). What I do remember is that you got the voiceless nasals and laterals right, and you assigned most of the stops correctly, except ⟨pp tt cc kk⟩ were supposed to be ejectives, not geminates. You did get ⟨bb⟩ wrong: it was meant to be a bilabial trill, although I would have been surprised if you got that correct. You also messed up the vowel system, although I wasn’t expecting anyone to get that right either.

I meant the entire assignment. So, you lost the entire language documentation?

No, I just never saved it in the first place. As I mentioned above, I didn’t think anyone would be interested. But I’m fairly sure I can remember all of it:

⟨m n ng hm hn hng⟩ /m n ŋ m̥ n̥ ŋ̊/
⟨p pp b t tt d c cc j k kk g⟩ /pʰ pʼ b tʰ tʼ d t͡ʃʰ t͡ʃʼ d͡ʒ kʰ kʼ g/
⟨l ł ƛ dƛ ƛʼ⟩ /l ɬ tɬ dɮ tɬʼ/
⟨wh f s sh th x⟩ /ɸ f s ʃ θ x/
⟨bb r y⟩ /ʙ r j/
⟨a â aa ɛ e ə i ii o ô u û uu⟩ /ɐ ɑ ɐː æ e ə i iː o ɤ u ɯ uː/

For the short vowels, it may be helpful to think of them like this:

Code: Select all

/i   ɯ u/ ⟨i   û u⟩
/e ə ɤ o/ ⟨e ə ô o⟩
/æ ɐ ɑ  / ⟨ɛ a â  ⟩

So as I mentioned, you got the nasals and laterals right, the stops and fricatives mostly right, and most of the other things wrong.

[bradrn]

Let’s revive this thread! I was playing around with my Conkey keyboard and came up with the following romanization:

⟨a b ƃ c č cь d ƌ e ɛ ə f g ɣ ƣ h ꜧ i ɩ j jь k l ł λ ƛ m n ꞑ ŋ o ɔ ȣ p q r s ʃ ʃь t u ɯ ꞷ ʌ w y z ʒ ǯ ʒь ƹ⟩

Can anyone else figure out a good phonology for this? Here’s my solution, if anyone’s interested:

More: show

/i ɯ u/ ⟨i ɯ u⟩
/ɪ ʊ ə/ ⟨ɩ ꞷ ə⟩
/e ɤ o/ ⟨e ȣ o⟩
/ɛ ʌ ɔ/ ⟨ɛ ʌ ɔ⟩
/a/ ⟨a⟩

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ŋ ꞑ⟩
/p t k q ʔ/ ⟨p t k q ʔ⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/ɓ ɗ/ ⟨ƃ ƌ⟩
/ts tɬ tʂ tɕ/ ⟨c ƛ č čь⟩
/dz dɮ dʐ dʑ/ ⟨ʒ λ ǯ ǯь⟩
/f s ɬ ʂ ɕ/ ⟨f s ł ʃ ʃь⟩
/v z ʐ ʑ ɣ ʁ ʕ h/ ⟨v z j jь ɣ ƣ ƹ h⟩
/r l j w/ ⟨r l y w⟩

_________________


And while I’m at it, I’ll do Knit Tie’s post, which was posted two months ago and still has no solutions:

m n nh nj ng
p b t th d dh ky k gy g kw gw
v s z ch j h
w r

l q and gh are found in loanwords

a á aa an án aan áán aañ ááñ
And likewise for: e ae o ou u i

/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n nh nj ng⟩
/p b t ʈ d ɖ tʃ k dʒ g kʷ gʷ/ ⟨p b t th d dh ky k gy g kw gw⟩
/v s z ʃ j h/ ⟨v s z ch j h⟩
/(l q ɣ)/ ⟨(l q gh)⟩
/a e ɛ o ɔ u i/ ⟨a e ae o ou u i⟩
/a˧ a˥ a˧ː ã˧ ã˥ ãː˧ ãː˥ aː˧˩ aː˥˧/ ⟨a á aa an án aan áán aañ ááñ⟩

Figuring out what ⟨ñ⟩ meant is the trickiest bit; if you can still remember from when you made this, what did you intend for that to mean?

[Qwynegold]

<m n ꞑ>
/m n ŋ/

<p b t λ d k g q ƣ>
/p b t tˡ d k ɡ q ɢ/

<c ƛ č ǯ cь>
/ts tɬ ʈʂ ɖʐ tɕ/

<f s z ł ʃ ʒ ʃь ʒь h ɣ ꜧ>
/f s z ɬ ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ x ɣ ħ/

<ƃ r ƌ ƹ>
/ʙ ɾ d͡r ʁ~ʕ/

<l j jь w>
/l ɰ~j j w/
J is [ɰ] after back vowels and [j] after front vowels. Jь is used for marking [j] after back vowels.

<i y ɯ u ꞷ>
/i iː ɯ u uː/

<e o>
/e o/

<ɩ ə ȣ>
/e̞i ə o̞u/

<ɛ ʌ ɔ>
/ɛ ʌ ɔ/

<a>
/ä/

<ŋ>
nasalization

Are there even upper-case versions for all these letters??

I'll post an alphabet of mine in a minute...

[Qwynegold]

Here's a romanization from one of my conlangs. Can you come up with a phonology for this? And please divide your phoneme/letter inventory up into shorter lines, so it becomes easier to see what letter corresponds to which sounds.

a ax b d dz e ee f ff g h hh hhy hy i ii j k kk l m n o oo p pp s sh ss ssh t tj ts tt tts u uu v y z · ʻ ◌̣

· is only found word-finally or between vowels. ʻ is only found at the beginning of monosyllabic words. Dot below can be found under any letter (not · or ʻ), however, notice the following exceptions: G̣ġ J̣ȷ̈ P̣ṗ.

I don't have enough to make real example sentences, so I'll just give you this gibberish:

Sax ḷaxde shpo. Ḳami ʻkau hyi yoḅu. Ụunuudue luġax datṭa shaḅelo sas ṇada. Ṣhojubee ṃosh nuȷ̈i-ḥyilu ujaṣee. Hosoi lau ḷuide huẓu ỵoode. Skunai haṇas aḷud deshṭa ụe·i. Ḍaihodue kaġu u·. In neḷu ṣashta ẓembu. Ḳaxsa ʻi·? Kadaḷu katṭa goạs oyaṣhue. ʻHyi ḳae shkatṭe aḷu·.

[bradrn]

Are there even upper-case versions for all these letters??

Amazingly enough, yes there are! (Except for barred lambda ⟨ƛ⟩; for some reason, that doesn’t have an uppercase.) And here’s the proof:

⟨A B Ƃ C Č CЬ D Ƌ E Ɛ Ə F G Ɣ Ƣ H Ꜧ I Ɩ J JЬ K L Ł Λ (no ƛ capital) M N Ꞑ Ŋ O Ɔ Ȣ P Q R S Ʃ ƩЬ T U Ɯ Ꞷ Ʌ W Y Z Ʒ Ǯ ƷЬ Ƹ⟩

I see now that some of the capitals (capital ⟨λ⟩ and ⟨ʌ⟩, also capital ⟨i⟩ and ⟨ɩ⟩) look the same; I probably should have taken that into account when making this orthography. But the rest of the capitals end up working surprisingly well!

_____________
(I haven’t gotten to your orthography yet; I’ll do that later when I get a bit more time. But I must say, it’s amazingly tricky! I’m getting stuck on the dot below — I can’t think of any coherent meaning for a diacritic which can modify every single letter. But I’m sure I’ll figure out something eventually…)

[Karch]

a ax b d dz e ee f ff g h hh hhy hy i ii j k kk l m n o oo p pp s sh ss ssh t tj ts tt tts u uu v y z · ʻ ◌̣

/p pː b θ tː d ts tːs dz ʨ ʥ x kː ɡ ʔ/ <p pp b t tt d ts tts dz tj dj k kk g ·>
/ɸ ɸː β s sː z ʂ ʂː ɕ ɕː ħ ħː/ <f ff v s ss z sh ssh hy hhy h hh>
/m n ɭ j/ <m n l y>

/i u ɛ ɔ ɑ ə/ <i u e o ax a>
/iː uː æː ɒː/ <ii uu ee oo>

/V́/ <ʻ[...]V>
/ˀC ʔV/ <C̣ Ṿ>

/sɑ ˀɭɑdɛ ʃpɔ || ˀkəmi kə́u ɕi jɔˀbu || ʔuːnuːduɛ ɭuˀɡɑ dəˀtːə ʂəˀbɛɭɔ səs ˀnədə || ˀʂɔʥubæː ˀmɔʂ nuˀʥiˀɕiɭu uʥəˀsæː || ħɔsɔi ɭəu ˀɭuidɛ ħuˀzu ˀjɒːdɛ || skunəi ħəˀnəs əˀɭud dɛʂˀtə ʔuɛʔi || ˀdəiħɔduɛ kaˀɡu uʔ/
Sax ḷaxde shpo. Ḳami ʻkau hyi yoḅu. Ụunuudue luġax datṭa shaḅelo sas ṇada. Ṣhojubee ṃosh nuȷ̈i-ḥyilu ujaṣee. Hosoi lau ḷuide huẓu ỵoode. Skunai haṇas aḷud deshṭa ụe·i. Ḍaihodue kaġu u·.

----

Here's the romanization of my most developed conlang, Blit, in alphabetical order:

a b bl c d e f g h ḥ i j k l m mb n nd ng ngg o p r s sy t th u v w wh y z

[bradrn]

Blit: /ʙit/

⟨a e i o u⟩ /a e i o u/

⟨m n ng⟩ /m n ŋ/
⟨b mb d nd g ngg⟩ /b ᵐb d ⁿd g ᵑg/
⟨p t k⟩ /p t k/
⟨f th s c sy ḥ h⟩ /f θ s ʂ ɕ x h/
⟨v z j⟩ /v z ʒ/
⟨bl w wh l r y⟩ /ʙ w ʍ l r j/

(As for Qwynegold’s romanization, I don’t think I’d be able to come up with anything more sensible than Karch’s solution. I’ll post another challenge as soon as I figure out something interesting enough to post.)

[Knit Tie]

Figuring out what ⟨ñ⟩ meant is the trickiest bit; if you can still remember from when you made this, what did you intend for that to mean?

Hey! I meant it as a vowel followed by an actual alveolar nasal, as opposed to a nasalised vowel.

Here's another lang of mine to reverse-romanise:

m nn n nr ny ng
p b ph tt dd tth t d th rt rd rth k g kh
f s z sr r h
w y
a e i o u

Alternatively, here's another romanisation:

m nh n ṇ ñ ŋ
p b th dh t d ṭ ḍ k g
f v s z ṣ ẓ kh gh
rh r ṛ
w y
a e i o u

[bradrn]

Figuring out what ⟨ñ⟩ meant is the trickiest bit; if you can still remember from when you made this, what did you intend for that to mean?

Hey! I meant it as a vowel followed by an actual alveolar nasal, as opposed to a nasalised vowel.

Thanks Knit Tie! Here’s your first romanization:

⟨m nn n nr ny ng⟩ /m n̪ n ɳ ɲ ŋ/
⟨p b ph tt dd tth t d th rt rd rth k g kh⟩ /p b pʰ t̪ d̪ t̪ʰ t d tʰ ʈ ɖ ʈʰ k g kʰ/
⟨f s z sr r h⟩ /f s z ʂ ʐ h/
⟨w y⟩ /w j/
⟨a e i o u ⟩ /a e i o u/

And here’s your second, which I actually found pretty similar to the first one:

⟨m nh n ṇ ñ ŋ⟩ /m n̪ n ɳ ɲ ŋ/
⟨p b th dh t d ṭ ḍ k g⟩ /p b t̪ d̪ t d ʈ ɖ k g/
⟨f v s z ṣ ẓ kh gh⟩ /f v s z ʂ ʐ x ɣ/
⟨rh r ṛ⟩ /r̥ r ɻ/
⟨w y⟩ /w j/
⟨a e i o u⟩ /a e i o u/

[Knit Tie]

Those are actually supposed to be the same exact language :V. I've included both romanisations as a puzzle of sorts to help people deduce the phonology.

[bradrn]

Those are actually supposed to be the same exact language :V. I've included both romanisations as a puzzle of sorts to help people deduce the phonology.

Oh! Well, in that case, I obviously got it wrong. But I can’t see the solution… could you tell me what it was?

Anyway, here’s another challenge:

⟨a b c̣ c d e f g gö h ȟ ḥ ɛ i ĩ j k ḳ kö ḳö l m n o p ṗ q q̇ r s š t ṭ u ü v w x xö x̌ y z ž⟩

(Hint: Any letters which look like they have been placed ‘out of order’ are placed there deliberately…)

[Qwynegold]

Ꞷ

Dafuq?