Reverse Rominazation Challenge Thread, v2.0

[Qwynegold]

a ax b d dz e ee f ff g h hh hhy hy i ii j k kk l m n o oo p pp s sh ss ssh t tj ts tt tts u uu v y z · ʻ ◌̣

/p pː b θ tː d ts tːs dz ʨ ʥ x kː ɡ ʔ/ <p pp b t tt d ts tts dz tj dj k kk g ·>
/ɸ ɸː β s sː z ʂ ʂː ɕ ɕː ħ ħː/ <f ff v s ss z sh ssh hy hhy h hh>
/m n ɭ j/ <m n l y>

/i u ɛ ɔ ɑ ə/ <i u e o ax a>
/iː uː æː ɒː/ <ii uu ee oo>

That's an interesting trick, replacing the short plain plosives with fricatives. And you did an unexpected thing with the vowels too.

/ˀC ʔV/ <C̣ Ṿ>

Preglottalization...? Is that a thing?

[Qwynegold]

(As for Qwynegold’s romanization, I don’t think I’d be able to come up with anything more sensible than Karch’s solution.

Allright, I'll give the solution.

More: show

The underdot marks stress (on the first letter of the syllable), and ʻ marks that a word is unstressed, which can only happen on monosyllabic words. A stressed monosyllabic word is unmarked.

[bradrn]

Ꞷ

Dafuq?

Latin letter omega. It’s one of my favourite letters, but no-one seems to use it. (Maybe because it’s so obscure that even dedicated Unicode fonts don’t support it?)

[Knit Tie]

Doublepost, sorry.

[Knit Tie]

Those are actually supposed to be the same exact language :V. I've included both romanisations as a puzzle of sorts to help people deduce the phonology.

Oh! Well, in that case, I obviously got it wrong. But I can’t see the solution… could you tell me what it was?

Anyway, here’s another challenge:

⟨a b c̣ c d e f g gö h ȟ ḥ ɛ i ĩ j k ḳ kö ḳö l m n o p ṗ q q̇ r s š t ṭ u ü v w x xö x̌ y z ž⟩

(Hint: Any letters which look like they have been placed ‘out of order’ are placed there deliberately…)

The solution's quite simple, actually: voiced stops b d̪ d ɖ g simply lenite to β ɾ̪ ɾˠ ɽ ɣ in most environments. What remains are two alspirated-lenis true plosive series and voicing contrast in fricatives.

Anyway, your challenge!

/a b ts’ ts d e f g gʷ h ʕ ħ ɛ i ɪ dʒ k k’ kʷ kʷ’ l m n o p p’ q q’ r s ʃ t t’ u y v w x xʷ ɣ j z ʒ/

How’s that?

[bradrn]

Oh! Well, in that case, I obviously got it wrong. But I can’t see the solution… could you tell me what it was?

Anyway, here’s another challenge:

⟨a b c̣ c d e f g gö h ȟ ḥ ɛ i ĩ j k ḳ kö ḳö l m n o p ṗ q q̇ r s š t ṭ u ü v w x xö x̌ y z ž⟩

(Hint: Any letters which look like they have been placed ‘out of order’ are placed there deliberately…)

The solution's quite simple, actually: voiced stops b d̪ d ɖ g simply lenite to β ɾ̪ ɾˠ ɽ ɣ in most environments. What remains are two alspirated-lenis true plosive series and voicing contrast in fricatives.

Anyway, your challenge!

/a b ts’ ts d e f g gʷ h ʕ ħ ɛ i ɪ dʒ k k’ kʷ kʷ’ l m n o p p’ q q’ r s ʃ t t’ u y v w x xʷ ɣ j z ʒ/

How’s that?

Here’s the issues I can see:

• ⟨h ȟ⟩ were meant to be /ɣ ʁ/; ⟨x̌⟩ was /χ/ (as in Americanist tradition)
• ⟨ɛ⟩ was actually consonantal /ʕ/ (this was what the ‘out of order’ hint was referring to)
• ⟨p t c k q ṗ ṭ c̣ ḳ q̇⟩ were meant to be aspirated and unaspirated rather than pulmonic and ejective.
• ⟨c⟩ was meant to be /tʃ/ rather than /ts/
• ⟨ü⟩ was meant to be /ʉ/ rather than /y/

But apart from those comparatively minor issues, it looks like you got it almost entirely correct! I’m particularly impressed you figured out that ⟨-ö⟩ was labialisation.

(Also, I think you quoted your post rather than editing it. Could you delete the duplicate post?)

[Birdlang]

Ok since no ones put a new one up, I’ll put Birdish’s romanization
a b c ç d e é f g ǧ h ȟ i j ĵ k l ĺ ľ m n ŋ ń o ó ŏ p r ř s t u ú û ŭ v w x y z ʒ ʻ ə

[Qwynegold]

Ꞷ

Dafuq?

Latin letter omega. It’s one of my favourite letters, but no-one seems to use it. (Maybe because it’s so obscure that even dedicated Unicode fonts don’t support it?)

Huh. I can see the letter just fine, but when I look at Deja Vu Sans in Character Map, that code point (U+A7B6, U+A7B7) is not included. And I have no font with a wider range.

[bradrn]

Dafuq?

Latin letter omega. It’s one of my favourite letters, but no-one seems to use it. (Maybe because it’s so obscure that even dedicated Unicode fonts don’t support it?)

Huh. I can see the letter just fine, but when I look at Deja Vu Sans in Character Map, that code point (U+A7B6, U+A7B7) is not included. And I have no font with a wider range.

Yes, exactly. Oddly enough, it turns out that on Windows, Arial and Times new Roman support several characters which many other dedicated Unicode fonts do not include. These characters include ⟨ɋ⟩, ⟨ꞷ⟩, and even ⟨‽⟩. Of course, the range differs with the font: despite the name, Junicode actually supports surprisingly few characters, while Gentium Plus has many which even DejaVu doesn’t.

[bradrn]

Birdish:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ń ŋ⟩
/p t k ʔ/ ⟨p t k ʻ⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/ts tʃ dz dʒ/ ⟨c ç ʒ j⟩
/f s ʃ χ h/ ⟨f s x ȟ h⟩
/v z ʒ ʁ/ ⟨v z ĵ ǧ⟩
/r j w l ʎ/ ⟨r y w l ľ⟩

/a e ə ɤ o i ɯ u/ ⟨a e ə ŏ o i ŭ u⟩
/eː oː ɯː uː/ ⟨é ó û ú⟩
/r̩ l̩/ ⟨ř ĺ⟩

[Birdlang]

Birdish:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ń ŋ⟩
/p t k ʔ/ ⟨p t k ʻ⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/ts tʃ dz dʒ/ ⟨c ç ʒ j⟩
/f s ʃ χ h/ ⟨f s x ȟ h⟩
/v z ʒ ʁ/ ⟨v z ĵ ǧ⟩
/r j w l ʎ/ ⟨r y w l ľ⟩

/a e ə ɤ o i ɯ u/ ⟨a e ə ŏ o i ŭ u⟩
/eː oː ɯː uː/ ⟨é ó û ú⟩
/r̩ l̩/ ⟨ř ĺ⟩

Got some of it right
Actually the nasals and stops are right other than the affricates, the others are
/ʦ ʧ ʣ ʤ/ ç c ʒ ĵ
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z x j ȟ ǧ
/ɾ r j ɰ l ʎ/ r ř y w l ĺ
/ɮ/ ľ

Will do the vowels later.

[bradrn]

Birdish:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ń ŋ⟩
/p t k ʔ/ ⟨p t k ʻ⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/ts tʃ dz dʒ/ ⟨c ç ʒ j⟩
/f s ʃ χ h/ ⟨f s x ȟ h⟩
/v z ʒ ʁ/ ⟨v z ĵ ǧ⟩
/r j w l ʎ/ ⟨r y w l ľ⟩

/a e ə ɤ o i ɯ u/ ⟨a e ə ŏ o i ŭ u⟩
/eː oː ɯː uː/ ⟨é ó û ú⟩
/r̩ l̩/ ⟨ř ĺ⟩

Got some of it right
Actually the nasals and stops are right other than the affricates, the others are
/ʦ ʧ ʣ ʤ/ ç c ʒ ĵ
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z x j ȟ ǧ
/ɾ r j ɰ l ʎ/ r ř y w l ĺ
/ɮ/ ľ

Will do the vowels later.

Wow, it looks like I got more right than I expected! And I even got the most difficult bits mostly correct. (I struggled particularly with the afficates.) It looks like:

• I swapped ⟨c⟩ and ⟨ç⟩, and ⟨j⟩ and ⟨ĵ⟩
• I did /ʁ/ instead of /ɣ/ for ⟨ǧ⟩ (but there’s not much difference between those two anyway)
• I did /w/ instead of /ɰ/ for ⟨w⟩, and /ɸ β/ instead of /f v/ for ⟨f v⟩, which I think were reasonable errors to make
• I had absolutely no idea what to do with ⟨ř ĺ⟩, so I just made them into syllabic consonants; those were actually /r ʎ/, with ⟨r ľ⟩ being /ɾ ɮ/. I don’t think I could reasonably have figured out that last one, but I really should have figured out ⟨r ř⟩.

Anyway, thanks for telling me how I did; this is definitely one of the most interesting romanization challenges (either normal or reverse) I’ve done on this board! Now I want to know how I did on the vowels — I found those fairly tricky as well…

[Xwtek]

<a b c c' č č' d e g h i j k kh k' kw kwh kw' l ɬ m n o r s š t th t' tɬ tɬ' u w x xw z ø>

The vowel letter may carry an acute accent, grave accent (which is usually replaced by acute accent except in dictionary), and ogonek. The ogonek is independent of accent. The orthography is far from phonemic, as it distiguishes a phone that is actually allophonic.. This is also the same orthography as one of my conlang.

[Birdlang]

Birdish:

/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n ń ŋ⟩
/p t k ʔ/ ⟨p t k ʻ⟩
/b d g/ ⟨b d g⟩
/ts tʃ dz dʒ/ ⟨c ç ʒ j⟩
/f s ʃ χ h/ ⟨f s x ȟ h⟩
/v z ʒ ʁ/ ⟨v z ĵ ǧ⟩
/r j w l ʎ/ ⟨r y w l ľ⟩

/a e ə ɤ o i ɯ u/ ⟨a e ə ŏ o i ŭ u⟩
/eː oː ɯː uː/ ⟨é ó û ú⟩
/r̩ l̩/ ⟨ř ĺ⟩

Got some of it right
Actually the nasals and stops are right other than the affricates, the others are
/ʦ ʧ ʣ ʤ/ ç c ʒ ĵ
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z x j ȟ ǧ
/ɾ r j ɰ l ʎ/ r ř y w l ĺ
/ɮ/ ľ

Will do the vowels later.

Wow, it looks like I got more right than I expected! And I even got the most difficult bits mostly correct. (I struggled particularly with the afficates.) It looks like:

• I swapped ⟨c⟩ and ⟨ç⟩, and ⟨j⟩ and ⟨ĵ⟩
• I did /ʁ/ instead of /ɣ/ for ⟨ǧ⟩ (but there’s not much difference between those two anyway)
• I did /w/ instead of /ɰ/ for ⟨w⟩, and /ɸ β/ instead of /f v/ for ⟨f v⟩, which I think were reasonable errors to make
• I had absolutely no idea what to do with ⟨ř ĺ⟩, so I just made them into syllabic consonants; those were actually /r ʎ/, with ⟨r ľ⟩ being /ɾ ɮ/. I don’t think I could reasonably have figured out that last one, but I really should have figured out ⟨r ř⟩.

Anyway, thanks for telling me how I did; this is definitely one of the most interesting romanization challenges (either normal or reverse) I’ve done on this board! Now I want to know how I did on the vowels — I found those fairly tricky as well…

The vowels were OK
/i y~ʉ u ʊ e ɤ o ə ɛ ʌ ɔ a/ i û ú u é ŏ ó ə e ŭ o a
Length is marked by a macron, doubling or the letter h.
Macron is not used on the normally accented vowels
All long ones are: ī ů ü ū ë õ ö ĕ ē ũ ō ā

[bradrn]

The orthography is far from phonemic, as it distiguishes a certainly phonemic.

I don’t understand this sentence. What do you mean by ‘it distinguishes a certainly phonemic’? Specifically, if it helps you, the problem is that you are using an adjective (namely ‘phonemic’) as if it were a noun, and then you’re modifying it with ‘certainly’, which is an adverb which cannot modify nouns.

[Xwtek]

The orthography is far from phonemic, as it distiguishes a certainly phonemic.

I don’t understand this sentence. What do you mean by ‘it distinguishes a certainly phonemic’? Specifically, if it helps you, the problem is that you are using an adjective (namely ‘phonemic’) as if it were a noun, and then you’re modifying it with ‘certainly’, which is an adverb which cannot modify nouns.

Fixed. Thanks.

[bradrn]

Thanks Xwtek! I assume that was just a typo then. Here’s my solution for your romanization:

⟨a e i o u y ø⟩ /a e i o u y ø/
I honestly don’t have a clue what the accents represent, but I suspect that the ogonek marks nasalisation.

⟨m n⟩ /m n/
⟨b d g⟩ /b d ɡ/
⟨t k kw⟩ /t k kʷ/
⟨th kh kwh⟩ /tʰ kʰ kʷʰ/
⟨tʼ kʼ kwʼ⟩ /tʼ kʼ kʷʼ/
⟨c č cʼ č tɬ tɬʼ⟩ /ts tsʼ tʃ tʃʼ tɬ tɬʼ/
⟨s z š x xw h⟩ /s z ʃ x xʷ h/
⟨r j w l ɬ⟩ /r j w l ɬ/

I’m guessing that the allophone here is ⟨b⟩: out of all the stops, it’s the only one with no voiceless counterpart. Alternatively, if that isn’t correct ⟨c⟩ and ⟨č⟩ could be allophones, as well as ⟨cʼ⟩ and ⟨čʼ⟩. Or the allophone could possibly be ⟨š⟩.

[Xwtek]

This is actually Sakha my conlang. I want to edit the scratchpad, but I had no further material. (It seems like I'm stuck in phonology phase)

[Birdlang]

Another orthography
This time for Pigeonese
a á b ƀ c č ȼ d đ e é ē ḗ f g ɣ ǥ h ḫ ḥ ḩ i í j ǰ k ꝁ l ľ ł m n ň ŋ o ó ō ṓ ơ ớ p ꝑ q ꝗ r ř ṟ s š ꞩ ṡ t ŧ u ú ư ứ v ʋ w ẃ ẇ ꟃ y ý ẏ z ž ƶ ʔ
Sorry for the kitchen sink, it has a pretty big phonology.
Edit: added one.
Edit again: the character next to w-acute is anglicana w. It has nearly no font support.

[bradrn]

Another orthography
This time for Pigeonese
a á b ƀ c č ȼ d đ e é ē ḗ f g ɣ ǥ h ḫ ḥ ḩ i í j ǰ k ꝁ l ľ ł m n ň ŋ o ó ō ṓ ơ ớ p ꝑ q ꝗ r ř ṟ s š ꞩ ṡ t ŧ u ú ư ứ v ʋ w ẃ ẇ ꟃ y ý ẏ z ž ƶ ʔ
Sorry for the kitchen sink, it has a pretty big phonology.
Edit: added one.

This must be one of the most amazing orthographies I’ve ever seen. And what font are you using? I can’t see ꟃ, and I can’t find any fonts which support it either. But according to Wikipedia it looks like this:

More: show

(can’t figure out how to make the picture smaller, sorry, so I’m putting it in an expandable block)

According to https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2017/17238- ... cana-w.pdf, it’s an old version of ⟨w⟩.

Anyway, I think I managed to figure out something reasonable for this:

⟨m n ň ŋ⟩ /m n ɳ ŋ/
⟨b ƀ d đ g ǥ q ꝗ⟩ /b ɓ d ɗ ɡ ɠ gʷ ɠʷ/
⟨p ᵽ t ŧ k ꝁ ȼ ʔ⟩ /p pʼ t tʼ k kʼ kʷ ʔ/
⟨c č j ǰ⟩ /ts tʂ dz dʐ/
⟨f s š ṡ ꞩ ḫ ḥ h ḩ⟩ /f s ʂ ʃ ɕ x ħ h ɦ/
⟨ʋ v z ž ƶ ɣ⟩ /β v z ʐ ʑ ɣ/
⟨r ř ṟ⟩ /r r̥ ɻ/
⟨l ł ľ⟩ /l ɬ ʎ/
⟨ẇ ꟃ ẏ⟩ /ʍ w j/

⟨a e ơ o ē ō y w i ư u⟩ /a e ɤ o eː oː ɪ ʊ i ɯ u/
Acute accent represents high tone, no accent represents low tone

But I do have a couple of questions about this:

1. What does the line across the stops mean?
2. What do ⟨ḩ⟩ and ⟨ꟃ⟩ mean?