Reverse Rominazation Challenge Thread, v2.0

[Darren]

This must be one of the most amazing orthographies I’ve ever seen. And what font are you using? I can’t see ꟃ, and I can’t find any fonts which support it either. But according to Wikipedia it looks like this:

The ꟃ shows up in Symbola for me.

_______________________________________________________

I interpreted the horizontal line as showing frication. There are most likely far too many fricatives in my interpretation, but I had no idea what to do with the variants of <h w y> so I put them anywhere. I thing the vowels are probably more correct than the consonants.

/p b t d k g q ʔ/ <p b t d k g q ʔ>
/ɸ β f v θ ð s z ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ ʂ ʐ x ɣ xʷ ɣʷ χ ʁ ħ ʕ h ɦ/ <ꝑ ƀ f v ŧ đ s z š ž ꞩ ƶ ṡ ẏ ꝁ ǥ ꟃ ẇ ꝗ ɣ ḥ ḩ h ḫ>
/ts dz tʃ dʒ tɕ dʑ/ <c j č ǰ ȼ ý>
/ʋ l ʎ ɫ r rʲ ɻ j w ɥ/ <ʋ l ľ ł r ř ṟ y w ẃ
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ň ŋ>

/i ʉ u e ɵ o ɛ ɔ a/ <i ư u ē ơ ō e o a>

Accute accent represents stress.

[Birdlang]

Another orthography
This time for Pigeonese
a á b ƀ c č ȼ d đ e é ē ḗ f g ɣ ǥ h ḫ ḥ ḩ i í j ǰ k ꝁ l ľ ł m n ň ŋ o ó ō ṓ ơ ớ p ꝑ q ꝗ r ř ṟ s š ꞩ ṡ t ŧ u ú ư ứ v ʋ w ẃ ẇ ꟃ y ý ẏ z ž ƶ ʔ
Sorry for the kitchen sink, it has a pretty big phonology.
Edit: added one.

This must be one of the most amazing orthographies I’ve ever seen. And what font are you using? I can’t see ꟃ, and I can’t find any fonts which support it either. But according to Wikipedia it looks like this:

More: show

(can’t figure out how to make the picture smaller, sorry, so I’m putting it in an expandable block)

According to https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2017/17238- ... cana-w.pdf, it’s an old version of ⟨w⟩.

Anyway, I think I managed to figure out something reasonable for this:

⟨m n ň ŋ⟩ /m n ɳ ŋ/
⟨b ƀ d đ g ǥ q ꝗ⟩ /b ɓ d ɗ ɡ ɠ gʷ ɠʷ/
⟨p ᵽ t ŧ k ꝁ ȼ ʔ⟩ /p pʼ t tʼ k kʼ kʷ ʔ/
⟨c č j ǰ⟩ /ts tʂ dz dʐ/
⟨f s š ṡ ꞩ ḫ ḥ h ḩ⟩ /f s ʂ ʃ ɕ x ħ h ɦ/
⟨ʋ v z ž ƶ ɣ⟩ /β v z ʐ ʑ ɣ/
⟨r ř ṟ⟩ /r r̥ ɻ/
⟨l ł ľ⟩ /l ɬ ʎ/
⟨ẇ ꟃ ẏ⟩ /ʍ w j/

⟨a e ơ o ē ō y w i ư u⟩ /a e ɤ o eː oː ɪ ʊ i ɯ u/
Acute accent represents high tone, no accent represents low tone

But I do have a couple of questions about this:

1. What does the line across the stops mean?
2. What do ⟨ḩ⟩ and ⟨ꟃ⟩ mean?

1. The line across the stops means it's a fricative instead of a stop. And q is the same as in IPA.
2. Those 2 characters are /ʕ/ and /ʍ/.
The line across c, s, and z is /tɕ ɕ ʑ/.
The acute accent is actually length. Ē and ō are /e/ and /o/ as e and o are /ɛ/ and /ɔ/. Y is actually /ʊi̯/.
The ň is actually /ɲ/. Z is /dz/, j is /j/, ǰ is /dʒ/, č š ž are /tʃ ʃ ʒ/. Ʋ and v are /v/ and /w/ respectively. The ř is actually the same as in Czech. The r and r with line below are /ɾ/ and /r/ respectively. W and y with dot above are /ɰ/ and /ɥ/. H with breve under is right.
And the font I use is Symbola. It's at the link below.
http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/
@Darren thank you for doing it too. You got it mostly right.

[bradrn]

1. The line across the stops means it's a fricative instead of a stop. And q is the same as in IPA.
2. Those 2 characters are /ʕ/ and /ʍ/.
The line across c, s, and z is /tɕ ɕ ʑ/.
The acute accent is actually length. Ē and ō are /e/ and /o/ as e and o are /ɛ/ and /ɔ/. Y is actually /ʊi̯/.
The ň is actually /ɲ/. Z is /dz/, j is /j/, ǰ is /dʒ/, č š ž are /tʃ ʃ ʒ/. Ʋ and v are /v/ and /w/ respectively. The ř is actually the same as in Czech. The r and r with line below are /ɾ/ and /r/ respectively. W and y with dot above are /ɰ/ and /ɥ/. H with breve under is right.
And the font I use is Symbola. It's at the link below.
http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/
@Darren thank you for doing it too. You got it mostly right.

Thanks Birdlang! I’ve just had a look at Symbola, and it does look very nice — I do wonder how come I’ve never heard of it before, given that I have spent a bit of time searching for Unicode fonts.

[Xwtek]

This time for Pigeonese

I'm interested in romanizing your language. You should put the phonology on Romanization Challenge Thread.

[Birdlang]

Ok I’ll put the phonology here so I can put it in the Romanization Challenge Thread.
a á b ƀ c č ȼ d đ e é ē ḗ f g ɣ ǥ h ḫ ḥ ḩ i í j ǰ k ꝁ l ľ ł m n ň ŋ o ó ō ṓ ơ ớ p ꝑ q ꝗ r ř ṟ s š ꞩ ṡ t ŧ u ú ư ứ v ʋ w ẃ ẇ ꟃ y ý ẏ z ž ƶ ʔ
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ň ŋ
/p b t d k g q ʔ/ p b t d k g q ʔ
/ɸ β f v θ ð s z ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ x ɣ χ ʁ ħ ʕ h ɦ/ ꝑ ƀ f ʋ ŧ đ s ṡ š ž ꞩ ƶ ꝁ ǥ ꝗ ɣ ḥ ḩ h ḫ
/ts dz tʃ dʒ tɕ dʑ/ c z č ǰ ȼ dƶ
/ɾ/ r
/r r̝/ ṟ ř
/l ʎ/ l ľ
/j ɥ w ɰ/ j ẏ v ẇ
/ɬ/ ł

/i iː ʉ ʉː u uː ʊ ʊː e eː ø øː o oː ɛ ɛː ɔ ɔː a aː/ i í ư ứ u ú w ẃ ē ḗ ơ ớ ō ṓ e é o ó a á
/ʊi̯ ʊːi̯/ y ý

Edit: I put it in the thread.

[Karch]

/p p: b b: t t: d d: ʦ ʦ: ʣ ʧ ʤ k k: g g: q q: ʔ/ <p ꝑ b ƀ t ŧ d đ c ȼ j č ǰ k ꝁ g ǥ q ꝗ ʔ>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ň ŋ>
/f v s s: z z: ʃ ʒ ç x ɣ ħ h h:/ <f v s ꞩ z ƶ š ž ṡ ḫ ɣ ḩ h ḥ>
/ʙ ɾ ɾʲ r/ <ꟃ r ř ṟ>
/w w: ʔw ʋ l l: ʎ j j: ʔj/ <w ẃ ẇ ʋ l ł ľ y ý ẏ>

/i ɨ u e ə o ɛ a ɔ/ <i ư u ē ơ ō e a o>
/V́/ <V́>

--

Here's Ngorkwam, another of my conlangs (though you probably won't get close to its phonology):
a b ch d e f g h i j k kh m n ng o r s sh t th u v w y

[Birdlang]

a b ch d e f g h i j k kh m n ng o r s sh t th u v w y
Ok
/m n ŋ/ m n ng
/b t d ʈ k g q/ b t d th k g kh
/f v s ʃ x h/ f v s sh ch h
/l j w/ l j w
/r/ r

/i ɨ u e o a/ i y u e o a
I kinda think this pronunciation set I come with orthographically is similar to a digraphic Czech and Slovak with Javanese and Polish thrown in.

[Richard W]

Latin letter omega. It’s one of my favourite letters, but no-one seems to use it. (Maybe because it’s so obscure that even dedicated Unicode fonts don’t support it?)

Aren't orthographies meant to be handwritable? Lower case Latin letter omega and 'w' would be indistinguishable in my joined up handwriting.

[bradrn]

Latin letter omega. It’s one of my favourite letters, but no-one seems to use it. (Maybe because it’s so obscure that even dedicated Unicode fonts don’t support it?)

Aren't orthographies meant to be handwritable?

That’s debatable. These days, you could make the case that displayability on a computer is the most important requirement for an orthography. Besides, almost anything can be handwritten: Yi and Cherokee, for instance, look practically unwritable at first glance, and yet people have been using them just fine for many years.

Lower case Latin letter omega and 'w' would be indistinguishable in my joined up handwriting.

For me, they look quite distinct. I make the top ends of the omega curl in a bit (like ‘c’ and ‘ɔ’), whereas the ‘w’ doesn’t do this. In general, when orthographies have two similar-looking letters, they will tend to evolve to make those letters look more distinct (e.g. ‘1’ and ‘l’ and ‘I’ look quite different in most people’s handwriting: for me, ‘l’ has a loop and ‘I’ is always barred).

[Kuchigakatai]

I notice nobody seems to have ever commented on it. Am I the only one bothered by the misspelling of "romanization" in the title of this thread?

[bradrn]

I notice nobody seems to have ever commented on it. Am I the only one bothered by the misspelling of "romanization" in the title of this thread?

No — I was pretty bothered about it as well! In fact, if you look at my first post in this thread, you’ll notice that I did attempt to correct the spelling by editing the post subject. As you may be able to tell, that attempt didn’t work.

[Birdlang]

Ok here is the next one
a ā b c ch č čh d e ê f g h i ī j k kh l m n ñ ng o ô p r s š t th u ū v w y z ž

[bradrn]

⟨a ā e ê i ī o ô u ū⟩ /a aː e ɛ i iː o ɔ u uː/

⟨m n ñ ng⟩ /m n ɲ ŋ/
⟨p t k th kh⟩ /p t k tʰ kʰ/
⟨c č ch čh⟩ /ts tʃ tsʰ tʃʰ/
⟨b d j g⟩ /b d dʒ ɡ/
⟨f s š h⟩ /f s ʃ h/
⟨v z ž⟩ /v z ʒ/
⟨l r y w⟩ /l r j w/

There’s a couple of weird gaps here: in particular, this inventory is missing /pʰ dz/, although it has all of /p t ts tʃ k tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ b d dʒ ɡ/. I suspect I got something wrong, although I can’t think of any better solution than what I have above.

[Travis B.]

There’s a couple of weird gaps here: in particular, this inventory is missing /pʰ dz/, although it has all of /p t ts tʃ k tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ b d dʒ ɡ/. I suspect I got something wrong, although I can’t think of any better solution than what I have above.

Missing /dz/ is not odd at all when one has /ts/. However, missing /pʰ/ when one otherwise has a full complement of aspirated plosives is weird.

[Birdlang]

Ok here’s one more
Old Birdish
a ā b c ɔ d ð e ə f g ɣ h ħ i ī j k l ɬ m n ŋ ɲ o ɵ p r ɽ s ʃ t θ u ū ʉ v w ŵ x ȝ y ȳ ŷ z ʒ ƶ Ɂ ʕ
Some of these letters are out of order for a reason.
P.s. this is somewhat based off of IPA.

[bradrn]

Old Birdish:

⟨a e i ə y o u ɵ ʉ⟩ /a e i ə ɨ o u ɤ ɯ/
⟨ā ȳ ī ū⟩ /aː ɨː iː uː/

⟨m n ɲ ŋ⟩ /m n ɲ ŋ/
⟨p t c k ʔ⟩ /p t c k ʔ/
⟨b d ɔ g⟩ /b d ɟ g/
⟨j ƶ⟩ /dz dʒ/
⟨f θ s ʃ x ħ h⟩ /f θ s ʃ x ħ h/
⟨v ð z ʒ ɣ ʕ⟩ /v ð z ʒ ɣ ʕ/
⟨r ɽ⟩ /ɹ ɻ/
⟨ȝ w ŷ ŵ⟩ /j w ɥ ɰ/
⟨l ɬ⟩ /l ɬ/

I’d be particularly interested to know whether I got ⟨ɔ ʉ ƶ ŷ ŵ⟩ right.

[Birdlang]

Old Birdish:

⟨a e i ə y o u ɵ ʉ⟩ /a e i ə ɨ o u ɤ ɯ/
⟨ā ȳ ī ū⟩ /aː ɨː iː uː/

⟨m n ɲ ŋ⟩ /m n ɲ ŋ/
⟨p t c k ʔ⟩ /p t c k ʔ/
⟨b d ɔ g⟩ /b d ɟ g/
⟨j ƶ⟩ /dz dʒ/
⟨f θ s ʃ x ħ h⟩ /f θ s ʃ x ħ h/
⟨v ð z ʒ ɣ ʕ⟩ /v ð z ʒ ɣ ʕ/
⟨r ɽ⟩ /ɹ ɻ/
⟨ȝ w ŷ ŵ⟩ /j w ɥ ɰ/
⟨l ɬ⟩ /l ɬ/

I’d be particularly interested to know whether I got ⟨ɔ ʉ ƶ ŷ ŵ⟩ right.

Well
You did ok
Y and w with the circumflex you got right.
So it’s actually
Nasals are right
/p b t d k g Ɂ/ same as in IPA
Fricatives right except ȝ is /χ/
/ʣ ʧ ʤ/ ƶ c ɔ
The r and r with hook are actually /ɾ ɽ/ respectively
V is actually both /v/ and /w/. Just that geminated v is always a fricative and single v is always a /w/.
Vowels now
/a e i o u ə/ as in IPA except /u/ is w.
/ø y ɯ ʊ/ are o-bar u-bar y u. Macron indicates length.

[Birdlang]

Ok.
Modern Standard Birdish 3.0
a ā ä b c ć d đ e ē ë g ġ h i ī j k l ĺ m n ny ng o ō ö p r s t u ū ü v w y z ź ʼ
Pronunciations have changed quite a bit for some sounds, and new letters have been added.
As a bonus, I’ll add the other 3 main languages in the Birdish language group which use the same alphabet with variations
Central Birdish
a ä b c č d e f g h i j k l m n ñ o ö p r s š t u ü v x z ž dz dž
Coastal Birdish
a c e é f h i k l m n o ó ö p q r s t u w x y ʼ
Highland Birdish
a ā b c ć d e ē f g h i ī j k l m n ŋ o ō p r s ś t u ū w y ȳ z ź ʒ ʒ́

[bradrn]

Modern Standard Birdish:

⟨m n ny ng⟩ /m n ɲ ŋ/
⟨p t k ’ d g⟩ /p t k ʔ b d ɡ/
⟨c ć j đ⟩ /ts tɕ dz dʑ/
⟨v s z ź ġ h⟩ /v s z ʑ ɣ h/
⟨r l ĺ y w⟩ /r l ʎ j w/

⟨a ä e ö ë o i ü u⟩ /æ ɑ e ø ə o i y u/
⟨ā ē ī ō ū⟩ /aː eː iː oː uː/

Central Birdish:

⟨m n ñ⟩ /m n ɲ/
⟨p t k b d g⟩ /p t k b d ɡ/
⟨c č dz dž⟩ /ts tʃ dz dʒ/
⟨f s š x h⟩ /f s ʃ x h/
⟨v z ž⟩ /v z ž/
⟨j l r⟩ /j l r/

⟨a ä e ö o i ü u⟩ /æ ɑ e ø o i y u/

Coastal Birdish:

⟨m n⟩
⟨p t k ’⟩
⟨c q⟩
⟨f s x h⟩
⟨r l y w⟩

⟨a e o ö é ó i u⟩ /ɐ ɛ ɔ ə e o i u/

Highland Birdish:

⟨m n ŋ⟩ /m n ŋ/
⟨p t k b d g⟩ /p t k b d ɡ/
⟨c ć ʒ ʒ́⟩ /ts tʃ dz dʒ/
⟨f s z ś ź h⟩ /f s z ʃ ʒ h/
⟨r l j w⟩ /r l j w/

⟨a e i o u y⟩ /a e i o u y/
⟨ā ē ī ō ū ȳ⟩ /aː eː iː oː uː yː/

[Birdlang]

Modern Standard Birdish:

⟨m n ny ng⟩ /m n ɲ ŋ/
⟨p t k ’ d g⟩ /p t k ʔ b d ɡ/
⟨c ć j đ⟩ /ts tɕ dz dʑ/
⟨v s z ź ġ h⟩ /v s z ʑ ɣ h/
⟨r l ĺ y w⟩ /r l ʎ j w/

⟨a ä e ö ë o i ü u⟩ /æ ɑ e ø ə o i y u/
⟨ā ē ī ō ū⟩ /aː eː iː oː uː/

Central Birdish:

⟨m n ñ⟩ /m n ɲ/
⟨p t k b d g⟩ /p t k b d ɡ/
⟨c č dz dž⟩ /ts tʃ dz dʒ/
⟨f s š x h⟩ /f s ʃ x h/
⟨v z ž⟩ /v z ž/
⟨j l r⟩ /j l r/

⟨a ä e ö o i ü u⟩ /æ ɑ e ø o i y u/

Coastal Birdish:

⟨m n⟩
⟨p t k ’⟩
⟨c q⟩
⟨f s x h⟩
⟨r l y w⟩

⟨a e o ö é ó i u⟩ /ɐ ɛ ɔ ə e o i u/

Highland Birdish:

⟨m n ŋ⟩ /m n ŋ/
⟨p t k b d g⟩ /p t k b d ɡ/
⟨c ć ʒ ʒ́⟩ /ts tʃ dz dʒ/
⟨f s z ś ź h⟩ /f s z ʃ ʒ h/
⟨r l j w⟩ /r l j w/

⟨a e i o u y⟩ /a e i o u y/
⟨ā ē ī ō ū ȳ⟩ /aː eː iː oː uː yː/

Actually you got almost all of this right.
Modern Standard
G and g with dot are actually swapped around in the phonology.
Đ only occurs before e and i and is pronounced like a regular d.
V is actually a voiced bilabial fricative.
D is right but before e and i is pronounced /dz/. C and j are swapped around with ć and đ and ć is actually /c/.
Ś was supposed to be there as a voiceless ź which you got right.
A and ä are swapped around with ä being /æ/.
Central
Yep all right except a is /a/ and ä is /æ/.
Coastal
All actually are right.
Highland Birdish
All are right.