Innovative Usage Thread

[Esneirra973]

I've noticed that many English speakers in South Florida often use "can" and "could" interchangeably, especially younger speakers. The phrases "I could do it." and "I can do it." are completely interchangeable in some cases.

[Estav]

I've noticed that many English speakers in South Florida often use "can" and "could" interchangeably, especially younger speakers. The phrases "I could do it." and "I can do it." are completely interchangeable in some cases.

Can you give an example of a case where they not interchangeable for you, but they are for the speakers you are talking about? I'm not from South Florida, but I think the meanings of sentences like "I could do it" and "I can do it" are close enough to be interchangeable in some cases. When "could" is used without an explicit condition, an unstated condition tends to be implied ("I could do it if I wanted to" or "I could do it if it ended up being necessary") but that doesn't make a huge difference in the actual denotation of "could" vs. "can," which can both be used to express the idea of ability. What I'm saying here is not something specific about "can" and "could" for me: I think that "I would be able to do it" and "I am able to do it" likewise can be used to express similar ideas.

[Kuchigakatai]

And that construction with "could" as an apodosis of an unstated condition has parallels in Latin and Romance, and probably in a lot more European languages.

Facere possum. (present indicative)
Puedo hacerlo. (present indicative)
Je peux le faire. (present indicative)
'I can do it.'

Facere possim. (present subjunctive)
Podría hacerlo. (simple conditional)
Je pourrais le faire. (simple conditional)
'I could do it (if it came down to it...).'

[Esneirra973]

I've noticed that many English speakers in South Florida often use "can" and "could" interchangeably, especially younger speakers. The phrases "I could do it." and "I can do it." are completely interchangeable in some cases.

Can you give an example of a case where they not interchangeable for you, but they are for the speakers you are talking about? I'm not from South Florida, but I think the meanings of sentences like "I could do it" and "I can do it" are close enough to be interchangeable in some cases. When "could" is used without an explicit condition, an unstated condition tends to be implied ("I could do it if I wanted to" or "I could do it if it ended up being necessary") but that doesn't make a huge difference in the actual denotation of "could" vs. "can," which can both be used to express the idea of ability. What I'm saying here is not something specific about "can" and "could" for me: I think that "I would be able to do it" and "I am able to do it" likewise can be used to express similar ideas.

They're interchangeable for me in a lot of cases, except in the example I gave. For me "I could do it." means "I could hypothetically do it.", whereas "I can do this." means "I am able to do this." I've noticed that when I speak, "could" is used to refer to both hypothetical situations and ability, whereas "can" is exclusively used for ability, and this is usually the case. However, I've seen some people use "can" and "could" for both cases. Sometimes, my peers will use "can" to refer to hypothetical situations, while others would use "could".

And that construction with "could" as an apodosis of an unstated condition has parallels in Latin and Romance, and probably in a lot more European languages.

Facere possum. (present indicative)
Puedo hacerlo. (present indicative)
Je peux le faire. (present indicative)
'I can do it.'

Facere possim. (present subjunctive)
Podría hacerlo. (simple conditional)
Je pourrais le faire. (simple conditional)
'I could do it (if it came down to it...).'

I always found it strange how "can" and "could" are almost interchangeable in South Florida despite Spanish influence in the area.

[Kuchigakatai]

I still don't get what is surprising here... Estav's contrast between the two would be the typical locuses of the meanings, the stereotypes, but I'd say they're interchangeable to a large extent. Same goes for Spanish puedo and podría.

If my boss asked "who is familiar enough with X technology to try to see how hard it'd be to use it?" I could theoretically respond with él puede or él podría, the latter simply expresses less confidence than the former...

[Linguoboy]

If my boss asked "who is familiar enough with X technology to try to see how hard it'd be to use it?" I could theoretically respond with él puede or él podría, the latter simply expresses less confidence than the former...

For me this would be the difference between taking charge of something and volunteering to do it only if no one else would like to. There's an unstated qualification, e.g. "I could [but I don't really want to/I'm not the best choice/etc.]". Maybe that's what you meant by "less confidence"?

[Travis B.]

If my boss asked "who is familiar enough with X technology to try to see how hard it'd be to use it?" I could theoretically respond with él puede or él podría, the latter simply expresses less confidence than the former...

For me this would be the difference between taking charge of something and volunteering to do it only if no one else would like to. There's an unstated qualification, e.g. "I could [but I don't really want to/I'm not the best choice/etc.]". Maybe that's what you meant by "less confidence"?

I am used to this distinction being made in English with voice inflection alone, e.g. "I could do this" versus "I could do this", where the former is more like taking charge of something, where the latter is more like volunteering if no else can do something.

[Kuchigakatai]

Just had a blast from the past in terms of Internet slang. In the comments of a YouTube video containing a particular soundtrack from a videogame, posted in May 2008, a user spent a lot of time in 2011 ranting that the videogame was overhyped in terms of hilarity and music quality.


"I'm not a kid. Also, I can't "flame" on a legendary's games music cause it's "legendary" for many wrong reasons? Is that what you're saying?"


Hah, "flame". Haven't seen that word in a long time now...

[Kuchigakatai]

In the past few days, I've noticed an increasing number of people calling COVID-19 simply "corona".

[Raphael]

Only in the past few days? I had the impression that people called it "corona" or "corona virus" most of the time ever since the start of the whole thing.

[xxx]

fortunately many corona virus carriers do not develop corona virus disease of 2019...

[alynnidalar]

Alternately "the 'rona" if you want to be a cool kid.

[Linguoboy]

On a side note, a linguist friend mentioned that she was hearing "coronavirus" abbreviated to "co'navirus", which I found intriguing since I would've expected "c'ronavirus", if anything. Has anyone else heard the nonrhotic pronunciation in the wild?

[Travis B.]

Only in the past few days? I had the impression that people called it "corona" or "corona virus" most of the time ever since the start of the whole thing.

I have heard almost everyone here refer to it as just the coronavirus myself.

[Travis B.]

On a side note, a linguist friend mentioned that she was hearing "coronavirus" abbreviated to "co'navirus", which I found intriguing since I would've expected "c'ronavirus", if anything. Has anyone else heard the nonrhotic pronunciation in the wild?

To me at least, "coronavirus" and "c'ronavirus" are extremely similar in sound, differing only in whether the first /r/ is syllabic or not, so it would be natural to change the former into the latter.

[zompist]

On a side note, a linguist friend mentioned that she was hearing "coronavirus" abbreviated to "co'navirus", which I found intriguing since I would've expected "c'ronavirus", if anything.

In my dialect, the -or- is already a syllabic r: krr-ona. "krona" would be shorter but not easier to articulate. "Kona" is weird tho'.

"The rona" is pretty good, I guess. How about just The Ro? The Cove?

[Travis B.]

I have never heard "the konavirus" or "the rona" from anyone IRL.

[Hominid]

In the past few days, I've noticed an increasing number of people calling COVID-19 simply "corona".

I have noticed this as well. I suspect it is by analogy with flu: a flu virus causes the flu, so a corona virus causes corona.

I think it's a bit unfortunate that "corona(virus)" has stuck as the name, considering that there are other coronaviruses out there that are very much not the same thing.

[Raphael]

In the past few days, I've noticed an increasing number of people calling COVID-19 simply "corona".

I have noticed this as well. I suspect it is by analogy with flu: a flu virus causes the flu, so a corona virus causes corona.

I think it's a bit unfortunate that "corona(virus)" has stuck as the name, considering that there are other coronaviruses out there that are very much not the same thing.

Obligatory xkcd:

[Linguoboy]

I have never heard "the konavirus" or "the rona" from anyone IRL.

I hadn't either, but last night I was on a social conference call with a dozen friends and heard at least two instances of "the 'rona".

I can't remember, but have we discussed already how the loss of the perfect in American English is extending to the past perfect as well? I notice it especially with counterfactuals (e.g. a Nate Bargatze bit I watched the other day where he talks about what his life would be like "if I didn't marry [my wife]"). A few years ago, it was jarring, but I'm becoming accustomed to it as a variant, though I haven't caught myself using it yet.