Name That Language!

[Nortaneous]

Is this Chadic? Vowel system appears to be /a e o ɨ/, which is very distinctive; if Chadic, then it’s probably Bana or Margi or something like that. EDIT: ‘Bana or Margi’ suggests Biu-Mandara; is that correct?

Biu-Mandara but neither Bana nor Margi

[bradrn]

Is this Chadic? Vowel system appears to be /a e o ɨ/, which is very distinctive; if Chadic, then it’s probably Bana or Margi or something like that. EDIT: ‘Bana or Margi’ suggests Biu-Mandara; is that correct?

Biu-Mandara but neither Bana nor Margi

Well, yes, I was just giving those ones as examples. But I will admit that I am now stumped. Certainly, it doesn’t appear to be anywhere in the Grammar Pile, and I’m not quite sure how else I would figure this out given the size of Biu-Mandara.

[dewrad]

an easy one and a less easy one

Duqaça meхkaška gholla tiysab az go,
Cecväхav qiça lättiy jalamo.
Хila mega uzh хozagha dikagha, sa dog xhoх laz!
Duqaça lätteх xha ċa khägilg az lurgdac!

Chechen? But spelled weirdly: gh should be ġ and xh should be ẋ, I think.

[Nortaneous]

Chechen? But spelled weirdly: gh should be ġ and xh should be ẋ, I think.

yes. Latin Chechen orthography varies highly and it is regrettable that I was not able to find an example from someone who thinks 1 is a letter, which is very common in the Cyrillic alphabet but infrequent in the Latin. note however the excellent postalveolar series of <ç š zh>.

Well, yes, I was just giving those ones as examples. But I will admit that I am now stumped. Certainly, it doesn’t appear to be anywhere in the Grammar Pile, and I’m not quite sure how else I would figure this out given the size of Biu-Mandara.

I didn't go digging for a language; that should limit it a bit

[bradrn]

The weird thing is that most Biu-Mandara languages seem to have implosives and tones, but your text doesn’t have either. Are there implosives and tones, but they just aren’t transcribed orthographically? Or does this language genuinely lack them?

[Nortaneous]

The weird thing is that most Biu-Mandara languages seem to have implosives and tones, but your text doesn’t have either. Are there implosives and tones, but they just aren’t transcribed orthographically? Or does this language genuinely lack them?

more sample sentences

Ele ndana ege na, ne a Kosewa. Ne məndəye ga elé əwla. Ne ɗəwer ga. Alala na, gogolvan na, olo alay. Acar a hay kəre ava fo fo fo. Sen ala na, okfom adaɗala ɓav! Ne awəy, "Alma amədəvala okfom nehe may?" Mbaɗala ehe na, nabay oko, nazaɗala təystəlam əwla. Nabay cəzlar. Nábay na, námənjar na, mbajak mbajak mbajak gogolvan! Ne awəy, "A, enen bay na, memey na!" Ne mbət məmbete oko əwla na, kaləw nazaɗala ezlere əwla. Mək ava alay, mecesle mbəraɓ! Ele a Hərmbəlom ele ga ajənaw ete kəl kəl kə ndahan aka. Adəɗala vbaɓ a wəyen ava. Ne dəyday məkəɗe na aka. How əwla olo alay awəy egege, "A a nəngehe na, Hərmbəlom aloko ehe. Bəyna anjakay nok ha a slam məndəye ango ava, alala Hərmbəlom ajənok na, səwse Hərmbəlom." Hor əwla ahaw kəygehe. Alala, nəzlərav na ala gogolvan na a amata ava. Ko dedew babəza əwla ahay aməzləravala amata na, tawəy, "Baba ákaɗ gogolvan, baba ákad gogolvan!" Tájaka kəygehe. Ka nehe ləbara a ma ndana ɗəwge.

[bradrn]

The weird thing is that most Biu-Mandara languages seem to have implosives and tones, but your text doesn’t have either. Are there implosives and tones, but they just aren’t transcribed orthographically? Or does this language genuinely lack them?

more sample sentences

Ele ndana ege na, ne a Kosewa. Ne məndəye ga elé əwla. Ne ɗəwer ga. Alala na, gogolvan na, olo alay. Acar a hay kəre ava fo fo fo. Sen ala na, okfom adaɗala ɓav! Ne awəy, "Alma amədəvala okfom nehe may?" Mbaɗala ehe na, nabay oko, nazaɗala təystəlam əwla. Nabay cəzlar. Nábay na, námənjar na, mbajak mbajak mbajak gogolvan! Ne awəy, "A, enen bay na, memey na!" Ne mbət məmbete oko əwla na, kaləw nazaɗala ezlere əwla. Mək ava alay, mecesle mbəraɓ! Ele a Hərmbəlom ele ga ajənaw ete kəl kəl kə ndahan aka. Adəɗala vbaɓ a wəyen ava. Ne dəyday məkəɗe na aka. How əwla olo alay awəy egege, "A a nəngehe na, Hərmbəlom aloko ehe. Bəyna anjakay nok ha a slam məndəye ango ava, alala Hərmbəlom ajənok na, səwse Hərmbəlom." Hor əwla ahaw kəygehe. Alala, nəzlərav na ala gogolvan na a amata ava. Ko dedew babəza əwla ahay aməzləravala amata na, tawəy, "Baba ákaɗ gogolvan, baba ákad gogolvan!" Tájaka kəygehe. Ka nehe ləbara a ma ndana ɗəwge.

Ah, right. So there are implosives, and there do seem to be tones (although admittedly they appear to be mostly low tone.)

[Karch]

1 is Chechen. 2 is a Biu-Mandara language from Cameroon (the ones in Nigeria use <tl dl> for /ɬ ɮ/), but I have no idea other than that. Moloko?

[Nortaneous]

Moloko?

yes

[bradrn]

Moloko?

I’d be curious to know how you figured that out — if you look earlier in the thread, I got as far as finding that it was a Cameroonian Biu-Mandara language, but I couldn’t get any further.

[Karch]

It's simple! Moloko is probably the most well-known Biu-Mandara language (and I've seen Nort talk about it before) due to being analyzed as having one phonemic vowel - so I guessed and got it right.

[bradrn]

It's simple! Moloko is probably the most well-known Biu-Mandara language (and I've seen Nort talk about it before) due to being analyzed as having one phonemic vowel - so I guessed and got it right.

I find it interesting that you say Moloko is the most well-known Biu-Mandara language. I would have thought that Margi was, due to the prescence of phonemic /ⱱ/. But if you’re just going by number of vowels, then surely Wandala is more interesting — I believe it’s been analysed as having no phonemic vowels!

[Nortaneous]

But if you’re just going by number of vowels, then surely Wandala is more interesting — I believe it’s been analysed as having no phonemic vowels!

aw, hell, I have to dust off my bad college German now. if they insisted on writing in a language other than English couldn't they have been sensible and done it in Latin

(my high school Latin is much better than my college German -- high school precedes college and my high school was very out of date, so there was less time for the rot in the ~Field of Education~ to set in. reject modernity, embrace tradition, &c., &c.)

[bradrn]

But if you’re just going by number of vowels, then surely Wandala is more interesting — I believe it’s been analysed as having no phonemic vowels!

aw, hell, I have to dust off my bad college German now. if they insisted on writing in a language other than English couldn't they have been sensible and done it in Latin

(my high school Latin is much better than my college German -- high school precedes college and my high school was very out of date, so there was less time for the rot in the ~Field of Education~ to set in. reject modernity, embrace tradition, &c., &c.)

Oh, I just saw that claim on Wikipedia, citing this presentation — I didn’t even know the grammar (which I assume is what you’re talking about) was written in German! The Grammar Pile does have an English grammar, but that one claims three underlying vowels rather than none.

[Nortaneous]

Oh, I just saw that claim on Wikipedia, citing this presentation — I didn’t even know the grammar (which I assume is what you’re talking about) was written in German! The Grammar Pile does have an English grammar, but that one claims three underlying vowels rather than none.

afaict the paper that makes the no-vowels claim is Frühe lexikalische Quellen zum Wandala (Mandara) und das Rätsel des Stammauslauts

[bradrn]

Oh, I just saw that claim on Wikipedia, citing this presentation — I didn’t even know the grammar (which I assume is what you’re talking about) was written in German! The Grammar Pile does have an English grammar, but that one claims three underlying vowels rather than none.

afaict the paper that makes the no-vowels claim is Frühe lexikalische Quellen zum Wandala (Mandara) und das Rätsel des Stammauslauts

Ah, right. It looks like that presentation I mentioned cites Wolff/Naumann (2004) as their source, which appears to be the same paper. I don’t know German at all, so if you do manage to read it, please tell me if that paper looks convincing or not!

[axolotl]

Here's one. This is a sample text from an academic paper on the language. I was unable to simply copy/paste it out of the original document (the text got all glitched), so this is a full retyping, during which I also took the opportunity to switch it to standard IPA from the slightly nonstandard transcription system that it originally used.

lœβyŋ por te naðœŋœn nan lohe te ɣaβɒr hɔβ ɣaβe jør̥ takɛrsa laðalan
jør̥ takɛt tɛriɛn ppɛrɛ te tapɔsr̥ tatete hoβ jør̥ takɛrsa
jamkɛp nɛriɛn te ɣapɔsr̥
te marjɛr̥ ɔpɛl te mjɛlt rɨsa marjɛr̥ lœðɒl βarkɛ nan
ɣɛ ɔpɛl te mkɛrsa marjɛr̥ lyn
ɣɛ ɔpɛl te mkɛrsa marjɛr̥
ɣamɨlhɔβ ðɛmɛðɨn mkɛrsa mjan ɔro llɒð ttœr mrɔɣ rki ɣaββɨŋœn
mjaaajan naðœŋœn ɔro llɒð ttœr mr̥ɛr βe ɣr̥ɛr jør jrep ɣamr̥ɛrp
ɣamkal jɛljɛl te mr̥ɛr myl te mr̥ɛr hu te mr̥ɛr haβyl te mr̥ɛr hatœr
jør βɔɣ ɣam aβɣøðɣøð jør
nnɒr βe ɣɨðɛmɛð ys mkɛp nwar pɛl jɛhu nkɛp nwar pɛl jɛl nkɛp nwar pɛl jɛha nkɛp nwar pɛl
mɒryŋ nwar te tɨkyn mjaaan jør ɣaβe ɣar̥ɛr ðɛmɛð nnɒr na nwar βɔrɣɛ

[bradrn]

Here's one. This is a sample text from an academic paper on the language. I was unable to simply copy/paste it out of the original document (the text got all glitched), so this is a full retyping, during which I also took the opportunity to switch it to standard IPA from the slightly nonstandard transcription system that it originally used.

lœβyŋ por te naðœŋœn nan lohe te ɣaβɒr hɔβ ɣaβe jør̥ takɛrsa laðalan
jør̥ takɛt tɛriɛn ppɛrɛ te tapɔsr̥ tatete hoβ jør̥ takɛrsa
jamkɛp nɛriɛn te ɣapɔsr̥
te marjɛr̥ ɔpɛl te mjɛlt rɨsa marjɛr̥ lœðɒl βarkɛ nan
ɣɛ ɔpɛl te mkɛrsa marjɛr̥ lyn
ɣɛ ɔpɛl te mkɛrsa marjɛr̥
ɣamɨlhɔβ ðɛmɛðɨn mkɛrsa mjan ɔro llɒð ttœr mrɔɣ rki ɣaββɨŋœn
mjaaajan naðœŋœn ɔro llɒð ttœr mr̥ɛr βe ɣr̥ɛr jør jrep ɣamr̥ɛrp
ɣamkal jɛljɛl te mr̥ɛr myl te mr̥ɛr hu te mr̥ɛr haβyl te mr̥ɛr hatœr
jør βɔɣ ɣam aβɣøðɣøð jør
nnɒr βe ɣɨðɛmɛð ys mkɛp nwar pɛl jɛhu nkɛp nwar pɛl jɛl nkɛp nwar pɛl jɛha nkɛp nwar pɛl
mɒryŋ nwar te tɨkyn mjaaan jør ɣaβe ɣar̥ɛr ðɛmɛð nnɒr na nwar βɔrɣɛ

This is definitely Oceanic non-Polynesian. Phonology looks a bit like that of Sakao (which you have complained about before), but it doesn’t have the crazy syllables of that one. Is this from Vanuatu?

EDIT: Removed a bunch of baseless speculation

EDIT2: Found it, it’s Sakao. (The lack of crazy syllables confused me, but I got there in the end.)

[bradrn]

For clarification: Karch won last time, but didn’t post a new text. I just won this round, but it got solved pretty quickly. So should I post the next text, or should Karch do that?

[Karch]

mi kue toeba. tɔŋkita eti kue taoebe. gi buɟejebiŋkɤbe. mi cɔgegantitebe. ekweɟalle abemoibe. ŋi maŋka ga aŋgibete belebe. inenegi kueilowabegi kuburaŋega. gi ecɛlletucebe. tɔŋkita gi tukiriaŋega kueitekwatebe. lua cilemegi ukitteɛge. ice gi nariɛleetaŋegirage. uemegi ɤŋgamameba bencame ati. onotagilelemba etiʔnde ati.

Here's a text, transcribed into the IPA.