British Politics Guide

[dewrad]

I think we can assume everyone commenting is lefty (liberal or not) unless if they say otherwise, given the political slant of those who generally participate in these discussions .

I don't think one can legally "undo" the article 50, regardless of a second referendum.

(fixed typo article 60)

Possibly, possibly not.

[Salmoneus]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45616308

Essentially meaningless, though, since Labour can't trigger a referendum until they're next in power, by which time we'll be out of the EU.

[alice]

It makes sense - Cameron should have set it up as two-stage in the first place. [first: should we negotiate a withdrawal? If yes, then second: are these the terms we withdraw under?]

In retrospect, What Cameron Should Have Done would fill a very large book. But no, there isn't time to organise and hold a second referendum properly, no matter who agrees to it.

More likely: disastrous No Deal, Tories tell us "oh, we had a BRILLIANT brexit plan that would have been fantastic for EVERYONE, but the sadistic, brit-hating EU refused to negotiate! so everything's their fault" and everyone believes them

Well, the Daily Express at least; "MAY'S FINEST HOUR" trumpeted their front page on Saturday, in a spectacular affront to reality.

I heard rumours about Jacob and Nigel starting a new right-wing party; are they credible? (The rumours, that is)

[mèþru]

Oh not another one.

On the other hand maybe this could be like all the splitting that fractured the left across the world in the 70s and 80s

[Salmoneus]

Well, the Daily Express at least; "MAY'S FINEST HOUR" trumpeted their front page on Saturday, in a spectacular affront to reality.

To be fair, if you're looking for May's finest hour, there's not exactly a lot of good candidates... to be honest, I have to think "May's Finest Hour" may just have been winning the leadership in the first place. It's been pretty much downhill for her since then.
[May's worst hour was probably Grenfell, so soon after the catastrophic election]

But yes, there's a strong vein of British media whose understanding of politics only goes as far as "criticised by foreignors = success".

I heard rumours about Jacob and Nigel starting a new right-wing party; are they credible? (The rumours, that is)

Well, I don't have any conduit to the Jacob and Nigel confidances - as Stephen Fry memorably put it (of a member of the royal family), "I have not yet penetrated their intimate circles".

That said... on the one hand, nothing from those two is impossible. Certainly from Farage, a new party wouldn't be a shock.

But for JRM to join a new party would be VERY surprising to me at this point. What would he have to gain? At the moment, he can hope for the leadership of the Tory party (i.e. becoming Prime Minister). At the very least, he can be a major voice in the biggest party in parliament. At Ukip2, what could he do? Be overshadowed by Farage in a party with no power. I could see him doing it at some distant point in the future, when his ambitions within his own party are thwarted utterly, but not now. Particularly not with Farage, who I'm sure JRM considers to be a repellent little oik. [though Farage has been calling for JRM as PM for a long time now...]

And as much as all these people want to cosy up to Bannon and Trump, there's clearly not enough votes in that quarter to actually sustain a party.

Well, maybe there are. Apparently, 38% want a 'Hard Brexit Party', and 24% want a dedicated anti-Muslim party. But Brexit alone will inevitably fade as an issue, and 24% isn't enough to win an election. The smart money is just to have a Tory Party who is closer to the bigots than any other major party is, so that they've got nowhere else to go.


In terms of a serious new party, I'd pay more attention to the rumours around people like Cable, Umunna and the Millibands. An "SDP2" of Blairite and Brownite Labour MPs, with the Lib Dems agreeing some sort of alliance (again). This has obviously always been possible, but there's much more chance of it if they can frame it along Brexit (and cosmopolitan vs nationalist) lines than when it was just left vs right.


EDIT: apparently there's going to be a new anti-politics party launched soon. That'll end well.

[dewrad]

Trying to think up what the Blairite-Brownite-Centrist SDP2 party would name itself is amusing. Even more so when you think of what the inevitable merger with the Lib Dems would call itself.

[mèþru]

What would one do if their anti-Blair but okay with Brown?

[Salmoneus]

What would one do if their anti-Blair but okay with Brown?

Well, neither Blair nor Brown is actually involved. And some of the people who are involved were never really either Blairites OR Brownites - Blair was a decade ago, after all. But calling them "New Labour" seems perverse, when they represent the Labour of a decade and a half ago, and "Old Labour" are the new young people. And they don't have anyone notable enough yet to call them by their name - so they're not (yet) Umunnians or Leslieists (and 'Bennite' has kind of been taken!). So... "the Blairites and Brownites" seems about as good as we can manage.

[one of their anti-Corbyn leagues was called "Labour Tomorrow", which I guess is one solution to 'how to be newer than the replacement for new labour'...]


I'm hoping they just go for "SDP" again, just to make old people confused...

[the change this time, if it happens, would be that they'd actually be to the right of the lib dems... if we go through a few more cycles, the lib dems will end up as the communists!]

[Salmoneus]

Anyway, the news today is apparently that the Cabinet have agreed to back a relatively hard Canada-style Brexit. The PM's aides are apparently considering calling an election to defend her policy - which is a stupid plan, not only because she'll lose an election, but also because it's not clear what a victory would even mean at this stage. Meanwhile, apparently her allies in cabinet are promising that she'll be gone in the summer.

[Salmoneus]

Not really informative, but just in case some readers are wondering who this "Jacob Rees-Mogg" person, is, I just came across this masterpiece of modern photography:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoB1Wd3UcAAQPnj.jpg


It's 18 years old, but this is JRM in one of his cuddlier, more approachable moments (on the left; the person on the right is NOT a KGB officer, but instead the most important person in JRM's life: his nanny ('his' in both senses: she raised him, and she's raising his children for him)).

[Frislander]

just in case some readers are wondering who this "Jacob Rees-Mogg" person, is

I wouldn't have thought that was necessary - I thought JRM was one of the few politicians other than Treeza people outside the UK know about if only cause he's such an oddball.

It's 18 years old, but this is JRM in one of his cuddlier, more approachable moments (on the left; the person on the right is NOT a KGB officer, but instead the most important person in JRM's life: his nanny ('his' in both senses: she raised him, and she's raising his children for him)).

Euch that makes it arguably worse, although tbf at least he hasn't done what he could have done as a shameless values-free Tory and hired a cheap and exploited Eastern European girl instead, so I guess we've got to give at least a tiny minute bit of credit.

[mèþru]

So BoJo just released his plan for Brexit

[Raphael]

just in case some readers are wondering who this "Jacob Rees-Mogg" person, is

I wouldn't have thought that was necessary - I thought JRM was one of the few politicians other than Treeza people outside the UK know about if only cause he's such an oddball.

Most of what I know about Jacob Rees-Mogg, I learned from this Daily Mash article:

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics ... 0629130748

Reading that may or may not even have been the first time I heard of him. My memory is a bit unclear on that.

[dewrad]

So BoJo just released his plan for Brexit

"Plan" is surely a bit of an overly ambitious word here?

[mèþru]

It's an actual plan. Not one with any chance of being accepted by Europe, but it is a real plan.

He calls it "Super Canada", which is the most ridiculous part of the whole thing.

[Linguoboy]

just in case some readers are wondering who this "Jacob Rees-Mogg" person, is

I wouldn't have thought that was necessary - I thought JRM was one of the few politicians other than Treeza people outside the UK know about if only cause he's such an oddball.

Ed Miliband still hogs the Oddball British Politician slot in my brain and I haven't seen enough comics making fun of JRM for him to replace him yet.

[mèþru]

Ed Miliband? He's remarkably average in my POV

[Raphael]

Ed Miliband? He's remarkably average in my POV

The British apparently decided that he's a complete weirdo a while ago, for reasons unknown to me, which apparently somehow involve a ham sandwich.

[Linguoboy]

Ed Miliband? He's remarkably average in my POV

Have you heard him attempt to speak?

[alynnidalar]

just in case some readers are wondering who this "Jacob Rees-Mogg" person, is

I wouldn't have thought that was necessary - I thought JRM was one of the few politicians other than Treeza people outside the UK know about if only cause he's such an oddball.

Never heard of the guy before this thread, to be honest.