Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:57 am
If you guys have rarely or never heard /wɒn/, and if they have rarely or never heard /wʌn/, it sounds like there's probably some curious societal effects going on, with non-intermingling social circles. Or just people somehow not paying attention to the difference in the phoneme used.
There the same selectional choice in 'once', 'wonderful' and trouble'. I grew up using the LOT vowel for them, but for the first two switched to the STRUT vowel to provide a correct model for my wife, who is not a native speaker. The LOT vowel has been denigrated as a 'spelling pronounciation'. You can hear the LOT vowel in Louis Armstrong 'What a wonderful world', Rod Stewart, Doris Troy 'Just one Look' and Mary Hopkin 'Those were the days' and Patti Page and Doris Day 'Tennessee Waltz'. I have wondered if these vowels are marks of people who have made an effort to speak proper, though obviously they can pass down the generations.
Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:57 am
If you guys have rarely or never heard /wɒn/, and if they have rarely or never heard /wʌn/, it sounds like there's probably some curious societal effects going on, with non-intermingling social circles. Or just people somehow not paying attention to the difference in the phoneme used.
There the same selectional choice in 'once', 'wonderful' and trouble'. I grew up using the LOT vowel for them, but for the first two switched to the STRUT vowel to provide a correct model for my wife, who is not a native speaker. The LOT vowel has been denigrated as a 'spelling pronounciation'. You can hear the LOT vowel in Louis Armstrong 'What a wonderful world', Rod Stewart, Doris Troy 'Just one Look' and Mary Hopkin 'Those were the days' and Patti Page and Doris Day 'Tennessee Waltz'. I have wondered if these vowels are marks of people who have made an effort to speak proper, though obviously they can pass down the generations.
I practically never hear Americans with LOT in these words, so it is interesting that Louis Armstrong would use LOT here.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:35 amwidth breadth
[wɨd̻̚θ] and [bɻʷe̞d̻̚θ], I think. (The /d/ seems to be reduced to pure modal phonation with the tongue alveolar laminal, released as a fricative [θ] rather than through the nose as [n] or through the mouth as [d].)
Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:35 amwidth breadth
/wɪtθ/ and /brɛtθ/, with the same consonant cluster as in eighth /ɛɪtθ/. The /t/ is dental.
That is almost how I pronounce them, except that in my speech I would consider [t̪͡θ] to be a dental affricate reflecting how I frequently realize /θ/ as opposed to a consonant cluster reflecting /tθ/, considering that I also pronounce with and breath with this affricate much of the time. The difference between width and breadth on one hand and with and breath (and also eighth) on the other is that the former take a long vowel and may take, when spoken carefully, a geminate coda consonant, while the latter always take a short vowel and and a short coda consonant.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
How would you read the name of this dinosaur, Yandusaurus Hongheensis? I'd say [jɑ̃ndʉwsɔɻˤʷɨs hɑ̃ŋhʊɪ̃nsɨs].
Ye knowe eek that, in forme of speche is chaunge
With-inne a thousand yeer, and wordes tho
That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge
Us thinketh hem; and yet they spake hem so,
And spedde as wel in love as men now do.