Random Thread

[Ares Land]

Well, from a perspective that society ought to be structured along the lines from "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need", it is easy to handwave the economy. The problem, though, is that for any given thing, there will be so much demand, and so much ability to produce, and any change in ability to produce something to match will also filter down in the economy to things needed to produce any given thing and to how much labor is needed, and so on. In effect, an economy is unavoidable, even if one is not passing around money to make it function.

I can't speak for Torco, but I don't understand his reference to 'the economy' as the economy, in the sense of people producing goods and services, or investing.
More in the sense of 'the economy' being used as an excuse for why things sucks. As in 'Raising the minimum wage? In this economy?'

[alice]

I've often wondered what a socialist utopia would actually look like. Maybe it's worth its own thread?

[Arkasas]

I've often wondered what a socialist utopia would actually look like. Maybe it's worth its own thread?

Ask two different socialists and get 5 or 6 different answers, and of course then the two socialists start doing the old People's Front of Judea routine...

[zompist]

We basically just did that thread.

[Raphael]

About ten minutes ago, I forgot to let the water out of the sink after I was done doing the dishes.

[Ares Land]

I've often wondered what a socialist utopia would actually look like. Maybe it's worth its own thread?

There's an amusing book out there called The Machinery of Freedom that goes in deep detail into how a libertarian utopia would work.

I know, I know, libertarians and all that.

But it's a fascinating book at conworlding, and you have to give kudos to the author for actually trying to figure out how it would work in practice.
I think we're missing a left-wing counterpart to this book. (As zompist said, people did their best to figure it out in the Capitalism thread while I played that annoying guy who finds fault with everything)

Looking at it from a conworlding perspective, though, that would be a great project.(*)

In SF we have The Moon is a Harsh Mistress which, honestly, makes a good case for libertarianism. (And also explains how insurance companies work!)

There's a similar effort in The Dispossessed. It's supposed to be, in the author's world, an ambiguous utopia. But personally, I see nothing ambiguous about it. Anarres is straight-up described as a very unpleasant place. It is more honest than Moon (Heinlein can see no fault with his loonies, except when they're not libertarian enough) but there are more handwaves. The computer at Abbenay handles most of the economy offscreen, while Heinlein's Lunar society would work just as well without Mike.

Iain Banks' Culture is just great as a conworld, don't get me wrong! But as a utopia it utterly fails. It's supposed to be socialist within and anarchist without. We don't see much of either, to be honest. What it really is neoconservative abroad and dictatorial at home. The Big Brother AIs are friendly, I'll grant you that. Or rather, they'll treat you as pets, unless you happen to have valuable skills in which case you'll be blackmailed into fighting the Evil Empire. (I don't even remember if anyone thought of just asking the protagonist nicely in the Player of Games.)

In Ken MacLeod books, we get both socialists and libertarians. We know where the authors' sympathies are, of course, but frankly the libertarians look a lot more fun to be around.

Wasn't the Star Trek Federation supposed to be socialist at some point?



(*) For a bit of self-promotion: you can stay tuned for my own ideas on how a truly civilized society should work, soon-ish in the Yttes thread. It's not intended to be either utopian or socialist, but I think an advanced society would include parts we'd think of as socialist.

[Raphael]

Umh, Ares Land, I suspect zompist pointed to the Capitalism thread as a polite way of indicating that debates of economic systems can take place there.

[LingEarth]

I was flicky1991. I joined in 2008 and posted on and off for years.

And uhhh sorry for taking so long to respond.

Oh hi, I believe we know each other.

[ratammer]

I was flicky1991. I joined in 2008 and posted on and off for years.

And uhhh sorry for taking so long to respond.

Oh hi, I believe we know each other.

Hi!

[Raphael]

Another blog post of mine, this time about some of my beliefs, mostly about types of arguments I see as invalid:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... i-believe/

[Torco]

I've seen exactly one thing from the gamestop thing that gives me hope, and it's the strengthening of the 'fuck wall street' thing. who knows, maybe in a couple more millenia people will come to see "the economy" is bullshit.

Many people (mostly leftists) already see "the economy" as bullshit. They're wrong, and they're wrong in a ways that (I say this as a leftist myself) leftists are systematically wrong about the world, but it's not like nobody believes this already.

At least what I mean is that it's not bullshit in the sense that it's a lie: there is such a thing as the economy in the world, like, when we say 'the economy' that maps onto a bunch of actual things in reality. It's bullshit in the sense that, you know, traditional gender roles are bullshit, or austerity is bullshit.

[MacAnDàil]

Another blog post of mine, this time about some of my beliefs, mostly about types of arguments I see as invalid:

https://guessishouldputthisupsomewhere. ... i-believe/

I agree with everything you say. I would consider fleshing it out a little though, with more detail and examples.

[Raphael]

Thank you! One problem with my writing is that I'm generally very bad at making anything longer or shorter than the first draft.

[cedh]

[Travis B.]

I totally forgot that it is just two days until Pączki Day!

[Linguoboy]

Hopefully not too late to get some still!

[Travis B.]

Hopefully not too late to get some still!

Last Pączki Day I got some day of after work, as Pick 'n Save still had some then. (I wonder how authentic the Pick 'n Save pączki are though; for all I know they may just be relabeled jelly doughnuts.)

[Qwynegold]

In Sweden we eat semla on Fat Tuesday. I haven't been able to find any decent one. At the bakery one cost as much as two at the supermarket, and even that is expensive I think. The different varieties they had at that supermarket all had palm oil in them, and another supermarket I went to didn't have any at all.

[quinterbeck]

In Sweden we eat semla on Fat Tuesday.

I'd never heard of semla before - they look delicious!

Making pancakes on Shrove Tuesday is one of my favourite things of the year.

[alynnidalar]

I totally forgot that it is just two days until Pączki Day!

Tragically the closest local bakery that had paczki I genuinely loved--as opposed to the more mass-market stuff that I merely like--has gone out of business. I did pick up a couple the other week from our local convenience store chain, which is the middle ground between the ehhhh stuff available at major grocery stores (Meijer, Kroger, etc.) but it doesn't compare to a proper bakery.

I've heard rumors of another bakery in my area that has good paczki but I haven't tried them myself. If I'm feeling particularly spunky I might haul myself out of bed early and up there to see what I can get, but... we're also supposed to get a bunch of snow overnight. So I might just content myself with convenience store paczki (much closer and much more likely to still be available late in the day) and call it a day.

I wouldn't mind trying a "real" paczki--I assume everything I've had has been at least a little bastardized by exposure to the US. Certainly I've never tried the more traditional fillings like prune or rose.