COVID-19 thread

[doctor shark]

I didn't feel the needle on the first jab, but I did feel something going into my arm. Still fine to bike back home, though. Arm was quite sore the following day, but no real need for painkillers and it was all better come the day after. (I got stabbed on Thursday, and was back to normal on Saturday.) It definitely wasn't the most unpleasant vaccine I've had: that goes to the meningococcal vaccine I got when I was 16, where my whole upper arm was sore and felt very strange for about a week.

My suspiciously similar-looking doppelgänger brother mentioned that he felt under the weather for a day after his second dose, so I know what to expect. Though the dosing interval here in the Netherlands is quite a bit greater than in the US: it's 5 weeks for all the mRNA vaccines, unlike the standard three (21 days) for Pfizer and four (28 days) for Moderna. Either way, I'll then be able to get the "green pass" on the 20th, so maybe then I can consider booking a trip somewhere... it just feels too risky to do so earlier, given how things are subject to change quite rapidly/quickly.

[Travis B.]

The only side effect I had from either shot was a slightly sore arm (it was a bit more sore the first time while I only slightly noticed it the second time).

[Vijay]

Anti-Vax as a movement comes from decades of horrible diseases being so uncommon that people don't fear them anymore.

This part is also false. The Anti-Vaccination Society of America was founded in the late 19^th century during a smallpox epidemic.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

I do recollect reading that people were initially suspicious of vaccinations owing to a Biblical passage about those who are well not being in need of a physician (which was an obvious figure of speech, but one cannot imagine overliteral interpretations being that novel).

[Linguoboy]

Both my cousin and her husband died during the pandemic (he of COVID-19, she in a freak accident). Her memorial service and luncheon were scheduled months ago, when late July seemed like a fairly safe bet for a post-pandemic date. That was, of course, before the delta variant began surging in Missouri.

Today a message went out from the cousin who organised the gathering several people who attended have tested positive. No word yet on whether any of them were vaccinated.

ETA: At least one was--my Mom's oldest brother. I called to check on her and she was trying to find a place where she could get a rapid COVID test.

[Travis B.]

Both my cousin and her husband died during the pandemic (he of COVID-19, she in a freak accident). Her memorial service and luncheon were scheduled months ago, when late July seemed like a fairly safe bet for a post-pandemic date. That was, of course, before the delta variant began surging in Missouri.

Today a message went out from the cousin who organised the gathering several people who attended have tested positive. No word yet on whether any of them were vaccinated.

Sorry to hear about all that. That really sucks. Of course, the unvaccinated are ruining it all for the rest of us, by preventing us from reaching herd immunity which would actually put an end to COVID-19, which means stuff like this will keep happening.

[Ahzoh]

got my second covid jab yesterday. No side effects from this one either. Soon I shall be fully immunized against it.

[Linguoboy]

Well, you can add my brother-in-law's father to the growing list of the unvaccinated who have died needlessly. He'd been proudly flouting mask mandates for months and causing my sister needless distress as she tried to balance her husband's desire to spend time with his parents with her desire to keep her family safe (she has one child who's too young to be vaccinated yet). His stubbornness made it inevitable that it would come to this but it didn't have to and that's just so damn infuriating. My one hope is that this convinces some of the other holdouts among his family and friends to get the jab finally but it's not a firm hope because this is Missouri after all.

This weekends is Northalsted Market Days in Chicago. It's an event I've always had mixed feelings about because it's so crowded but I always see people there that I don't see for the rest of the whole year. I was really looking forward to it this year but now I'm thinking I won't go. Tourists comes from miles around and some of them are sure to be delta-carrying refuseniks so it just seems like too much risk.

[Ares Land]

Damn that's sad. I'm really sorry to hear that.

[Travis B.]

That really sucks. Sorry to hear that.

[MacAnDàil]

I am sorry for his death. It sure is a shame that such stubbornness is overly common and it costs lives.

[Linguoboy]

I am sorry for his death. It sure is a shame that such stubbornness is overly common and it costs lives.

I had a really good conversation with my BIL last night and was relieved to learn that, as far as he knows, the only vaccination holdouts in his immediate family are one of his sisters and her husband. Her SIL apparently had a bad experience with the vaccine but my BIL is urging her to discuss these concerns with her doctor to find out how grounded her worries are and what precautions they could take. His mother is still unvaccinated but not on principle so they'll take care of this as soon as they can, which unfortunately probably means after the service. (If it were me, I'd delay the memorial until at least two weeks after her first dose because you know if her husband was antivax then some of his friends must be, too, but nobody asked me. She caught COVID around the same time as him and had a mild case so perhaps her antibodies will protect her.)

Meanwhile I'm not the only one I know fighting off a sinking sense of déjà vu as cases increase and mask mandates come back. We're already starting to refer to future events in vague resigned terms again. (Back in June, my father's belated memorial in October seemed a done deal; now we're all talking about it very tentatively.)

[doctor shark]

Linguoboy: Really am sorry to hear about that...

I had a really good conversation with my BIL last night and was relieved to learn that, as far as he knows, the only vaccination holdouts in his immediate family are one of his sisters and her husband. Her SIL apparently had a bad experience with the vaccine but my BIL is urging her to discuss these concerns with her doctor to find out how grounded her worries are and what precautions they could take. His mother is still unvaccinated but not on principle so they'll take care of this as soon as they can, which unfortunately probably means after the service. (If it were me, I'd delay the memorial until at least two weeks after her first dose because you know if her husband was antivax then some of his friends must be, too, but nobody asked me. She caught COVID around the same time as him and had a mild case so perhaps her antibodies will protect her.)

The spike in numbers stateside makes me worried for both of my parents, who are unvaccinated. My mother isn't antivax, but she doesn't leave the house (that's what my brother's for); at least, from what I hear, NC isn't spiking too horribly, so perhaps I'm maybe paranoid. The issue is that, while my brother, who leaves the house, is vaccinated (and has been since April), there are concerns about whether the vaccines can fully stop transmission, especially of more infectious variants, so... yeah.

My father, though... well, maybe because of Oni no Manko his loving wife having worked in the medical field, is actually pretty antivax here and is vehemently opposed to being asked to take the vaccine unless required. And they're in Tex-ass, which is perhaps going the other way compared to other states. In one of my phone calls with him, he did express that some of it is due to his experience with the anthrax vaccination that the military used in the early 2000's (right after 9/11 and the concerns over the use of bioweapons, like anthrax), so perhaps it's a bit understandable, but he's really spewing a lot of the same rhetoric that I hear from the Fox News-like media that I sometimes run into, and I've really gotten to a point where, since discussion is futile, I just don't bring it up. (And he doesn't need to know that I wanted the vaccine ASAP and got it once available.)

Meanwhile I'm not the only one I know fighting off a sinking sense of déjà vu as cases increase and mask mandates come back. We're already starting to refer to future events in vague resigned terms again. (Back in June, my father's belated memorial in October seemed a done deal; now we're all talking about it very tentatively.)

I really know the feeling. I'm hoping I can finally book/plan a trip to see friends in the Grandest of Duchies (and to watch a friend defend his Ph.D. in two months), but what originally looked more certain is now not entirely so, given the ever-changing travel restrictions, case numbers, and distancing measures still in effect. And if I go, it'll very likely be by car, since that's the least likely to get impacted by travel restrictions. Even in light of the spikes here, not many of the loosening measures got rolled back, and the vaccination numbers are actually very high: apparently, the RIVM reports 85% of Dutch residents have gotten stabbed at least once (and ~70% are considered to be fully vaccinated per the protocol for the vaccines given), which is quite good considering how horrible of a start things got off to. But it still feels way too early or shaky to plan for anything travel-related, and I'm still quite unclear about whether or not I should plan for a trip to the US in December (which I really want to do, given that it'll have been almost two years since I was last home!).

Even though the mask mandate got lifted, I'd say 30-40% of people in stores still wear masks, as do about 20% or so of my coworkers. (I'm among that number, largely because I like wearing neck gaiters, which easily double as face coverings, and I wanted to reduce my chance of getting a nasty surprise before I got my second dose.)

---

In any event, I just got my second vaccine dose today (mRNA). Arm is very sore about 14 hours later (and the naproxen I took doesn't seem to alleviate things), but otherwise nothing too bad.

[Moose-tache]

I know opinions are like assholes, but I really think the US would be better off if they stopped thinking in terms of "during Covid" and "after Covid." I was there in the summer and it was amazing. Nobody wore a mask because either they were vaccinated or most people they knew were, and so the "pandemic was over," and apparently being vaccinated once means you're Superman. And now of course numbers are going up. If people would just treat it like the flu (regular vaccines, keep an eye out for bad strains, take basic precautions in high-risk situations, etc.) then we could probably avoid these crashing waves.

[alynnidalar]

I'm not sure it is being treated less seriously than the flu here, to be honest. Flu vaccines are only gotten once a year (and it's been far less than that for the covid vaccine for most vaccinated Americans) and nobody wears masks or avoids going out in public during flu season normally. The only time anyone takes actual precautions against the flu (aside from, again, a single annual vaccine that not even everyone gets) is if they actively have symptoms.

[Raphael]

Now the news from Germany is that a woman with anti-vaccine opinions managed it to get herself tasked with administering the vaccine in a vaccination center and injected more than 8000 people with saline solution instead of the vaccine.

I'm just so fucking tired of this shit.

[Raphael]

Oh, and over in Iran, which is already heavily hit by Covid-19, the new President, Ebrahim Raisi, has nominated a man as his health minister, Dr Bahram Eynollahi, who had previously been one of more than 2000 doctors and university professors who signed a letter to the previous President calling for a ban on all US-, British-, and French-made vaccines.

[Linguoboy]

Now the news from Germany is that a woman with anti-vaccine opinions managed it to get herself tasked with administering the vaccine in a vaccination center and injected more than 8000 people with saline solution instead of the vaccine.

I'm anti-incarcerationist in general but she'd better get prison time for that shit. That goes so beyond just spoiling doses. If someone injected me with a substance I didn't consent to having in my body, I'd want them off the streets.

Oh, and in case anyone was keeping score for the family funeral I mentioned last month, the final total is: 82 attended, 25 tested positive. Fortunately no deaths (though two vaccinated individuals were apparently told by their doctors they almost certainly would have died without the vaccine).

[Travis B.]

Now the news from Germany is that a woman with anti-vaccine opinions managed it to get herself tasked with administering the vaccine in a vaccination center and injected more than 8000 people with saline solution instead of the vaccine.

I'm anti-incarcerationist in general but she'd better get prison time for that shit. That goes so beyond just spoiling doses. If someone injected me with a substance I didn't consent to having in my body, I'd want them off the streets.

I am reminded of the incident months back right here in Wisconsin where someone was caught deliberately spoiling vaccine doses because they were an anti-vaxxer. Ultimately they pled guilty to two counts of attempting to tamper with consumer products with reckless disregard for the risk that another person will be placed in danger of death or bodily injury, felonies with a maximum sentence of 10 years.

[Linguoboy]

I am reminded of the incident months back right here in Wisconsin where someone was caught deliberately spoiling vaccine doses because they were an anti-vaxxer. Ultimately they pled guilty to two counts of attempting to tamper with consumer products with reckless disregard for the risk that another person will be placed in danger of death or bodily injury, felonies with a maximum sentence of 10 years.

Ultimately he got sentenced to three. We'll see how many he actually serves.

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/08/10045850 ... -to-prison