Loan words with more specific meanings after than before the borrowing

[Raphael]

In German, Bahn can refer to all kinds of trains, but is usually used for subway trains (U-Bahn or S-Bahn), while only trains between cities are usually called Züge (sing. Zug). Oddly enough, Zug is often used for subway trains on official signs with instructions and the like, but not usually in everyday speech. And Deutsche Bahn is the name of the company that runs most of the train network between cities.

[Travis B.]

Well, to me the latter is a subway; while that is a type of train, train is not the first word that comes to mind to describe them.

So what would you say instead of, "We'll have to get the next train?".

In this case I would say train, because that is still what the physical vehicle itself is called (as opposed to the system of which it is part), but I would normally say "I'm taking the subway" rather than "I'm taking the train" when referring to taking an underground, well, train, because the latter to me strongly implies an intercity train for me. (Note that above-ground, and sometimes underground, intracity trains are normally for me called by names such as the metro or, in Chicago, the L.)

[Linguoboy]

(Note that above-ground, and sometimes underground, intracity trains are normally for me called by names such as the metro or, in Chicago, the L.)

I have this tendency, too. So "underground" might be a general term for "underground railway system" in UK English, but for me it's specifically the London Underground. Similarly with "S-Bahn", which for me is the Berlin S-Bahn (since it's the only German elevated train system I've ridden extensively), Métro (/ˈmetroː/, the Paris Métro--not be confused with the "Metro" /ˈmɛtroː/, which is the DC rail system, or the Barcelona Metro /ˈmɛtru/), etc.

[Travis B.]

So "underground" might be a general term for "underground railway system" in UK English, but for me it's specifically the London Underground.

Same here - I would not call any other subway system the Underground myself.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

I can't recall if anybody's mentioned check — the loan into English with a modern meaning far more broad than its original one.

[WarpedWartWars]

I can't recall if anybody's mentioned check — the loan into English with a modern meaning far more broad than its original one.

This:

the classic example of a loanword growing far beyond its original sense is check, though that too is so old that I was surprised to find out it where it came from.

[linguistcat]

And in Sacramento, within the city, you take the Light Rail. Taking a train would also be headed to another city in that case. No underground rail though, at least not back when I was there.

[anteallach]

So "underground" might be a general term for "underground railway system" in UK English, but for me it's specifically the London Underground.

Same here - I would not call any other subway system the Underground myself.

I wouldn't either, unless that's its official name; for me the generic word is metro. There are only three such systems in the UK, and they're all called different things: the London Underground (which of course is often colloquially referred to as "the Tube"), the Tyne and Wear Metro and the Glasgow Subway; however for me the primary meaning of subway is a pedestrian route under a road.

And yes, when in London I'd say "taking the Underground" or "taking the Tube" rather than "taking the train" even though the thing I'd be travelling on clearly is a train. Similarly, I think, in Newcastle or Glasgow.

[Moose-tache]

When I said English speakers use the word "train" to refer to elongated, railed vehicles both inside and outside urban areas, I did not mean to imply that the words "metro," "subway," etc. do not also exist. Apparently I needed to state that explicitly.

There are a few English words that have seemingly increased their semantic breadth after being borrowed into Korean. The word "mart" can be just about any kind of store, and functions as a stand-alone noun, while in English it's main function is as a suffix on department stores. Sometimes English words gain greater range by simply being mapped onto Korean words, like a reverse calque, like the word "story," which is used in the names of businesses to mean "here is a noun," because Korean businesses already do that with the Korean word iyagi.

[Kuchigakatai]

Is that the actual explanation for "Maplestory"?

[Linguoboy]

When I said English speakers use the word "train" to refer to elongated, railed vehicles both inside and outside urban areas, I did not mean to imply that the words "metro," "subway," etc. do not also exist. Apparently I needed to state that explicitly.

Why so tetchy? Folks were just sharing some details of their usage, which then neatly segued back into an on-topic discussion of narrowed borrowings.

[Ares Land]

In French we don't use train for subways at all. It's une rame or un métro.

I think the use is even more restricted than in English. In NYC you can of course take the A train, and you'll hear announcements for the "3 train' in stations. Not so here. 'On prend la ligne 1.' and that's it.

The proper word for a train of the Paris métro is, apparently, une navette (a shuttle). Nobody uses that word except for the RATP (the transport agency.)

[Travis B.]

The proper word for a train of the Paris métro is, apparently, une navette (a shuttle). Nobody uses that word except for the RATP (the transport agency.)

Here a shuttle is a passenger van or light bus for transporting people between two destinations of which one is usually an airport, e.g. one can have a shuttle between a hotel or an external lot and an airport.

[Travis B.]

In French we don't use train for subways at all. It's une rame or un métro.

I think the use is even more restricted than in English. In NYC you can of course take the A train, and you'll hear announcements for the "3 train' in stations. Not so here. 'On prend la ligne 1.' and that's it.

To me the physical vehicles that run in a subway/metro system are still trains per se, even if one does not generally use the word when speaking of using said system (e.g. taking the train instead of taking the subway or taking the metro) as that implies taking an interurban train.

[Linguoboy]

Here a shuttle is a passenger van or light bus for transporting people between two destinations of which one is usually an airport, e.g. one can have a shuttle between a hotel or an external lot and an airport.

I've also heard it to describe the cars of the types of people movers you tend to find within airports or which connect the terminals to forms of ground transportation (such as rapid transit stations or parking areas), particularly when these consist of only one or two cars.

[zyxw59]

For me, a shuttle can also be any of the following

• A bus replacing (part of) a rail line during a service disruption ("The MBTA is running shuttles between Alewife and Harvard this weekend")
• A short subway line which primarily exists to connect to other lines; particularly the three New York City services called shuttles.
• A circulator bus, particularly one primarily serving tourists
• Any privately-operated (as opposed to operated by a local public transit agency) bus oriented around taking passengers between a major hub (such as a subway station) and a small set of specific destinations (such as office parks)

[Travis B.]

Here a shuttle is a passenger van or light bus for transporting people between two destinations of which one is usually an airport, e.g. one can have a shuttle between a hotel or an external lot and an airport.

I've also heard it to describe the cars of the types of people movers you tend to find within airports or which connect the terminals to forms of ground transportation (such as rapid transit stations or parking areas), particularly when these consist of only one or two cars.

I've heard that usage too, actually.

[Ares Land]

All of these uses apply to navette too, including the original meaning 'weaving instrument.' (there should be a word for these almost perfect one-to-one matches between French and English. grue 'crane' is another one.)

I heard navette for 'train' in métro annoucements... But Google doesn't give me anything interesting on this. I suppose it's a very specialized industry term. (It might refer specifically to automated trains.)

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Some of them are probably calques, others the result of heavy Norman influence on English.

[hwhatting]

Any privately-operated (as opposed to operated by a local public transit agency) bus oriented around taking passengers between a major hub (such as a subway station) and a small set of specific destinations (such as office parks)

For that use, the word Shuttle has been loaned into German, often further specified by compounding (Hotelshuttle, Airport-/Flughafen-Shuttle, Shuttlebus). The other case where it has been loaned is Space Shuttle.