United States Politics Thread 46

[Moose-tache]

Crimea doesn't want to be part of Ukraine. Both popular votes and regional parliamentary acts made this abundantly clear in 2014. Since then, most people have not warmed to the idea of being governed from Kiev. So "liberating" Crimea means using the Ukrainian military to forcibly reintegrate it into the rest of the country. From the perspective of the people of Crimea, who have never been Ukrainian, and only found themselves part of Ukraine due to Soviet administrative fuckery, this would be conquest by a foreign power. What's more, since 2014 Ukrainian laws have changed. It is no longer legal to provide Russian language instruction in public schools, which is going to be a hard sell for a population where Russian is the mother tongue of 82% of the population (incidentally, while Russia has eliminated Ukrainian schools in Crimea, the Crimean government's plan was to allow all three major languages, so switching to only Ukrainian schools would be like going out of the frying pan into another frying pan that sucks just as much). The only peace that's not going to a) cause renewed separatist activity, and b) not cause a permanent tug-of-war between Ukrainian nationalists and Russian Ukrainians, is the 2015 cease-fire line. If Ukraine wins this war and retakes any territory, the problems of the past will come back with a vengeance. My hope is that Ukraine wins the war, and instead of retaking these areas, it forces Russia to pay a huge indemnity and vacate its military bases in all the former Ukrainian territories.

[MacAnDàil]

Well this says the Crimean Tatars have never been fans of Russia in the first place and the others in Crimea are changing their attitudes. https://www.politico.eu/article/amid-br ... -to-shift/

[Moose-tache]

Oh yeah, attitudes toward Moscow are hardly rosey. Remember, in 2014 the Crimean parliament declared independence, not acceptance of Russian annexation. But no matter how much Crimeans come to oppose Russian domination, I doubt very much they're going to think "Well, if Moscow sucks, I guess that means Kiev is good." My guess is repatriation would be a distant third behind Independence and continuing the status quo with Russia.

It seems that a surprising number of Americans have been carrying a torch for Ukrainian-Crimean irredentism since 2014. And I get it. Nobody wants to see Putin's behavior rewarded. But undoing it could be even worse. There are better ways to punish the Russian government without turning Crimea into the new Alsace.

[zompist]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here... Ukraine has been amazingly good at letting Russia fuck up its invasion, but it's yet to be seen if it can win back territory (beyond the village level). I expect it can, but its first priority is going to territory occupied this year. Kherson, probably, unless (as is quite possible) they're broadcasting their moves merely to hide something else. As soon as possible they're going to want to retake the southern coast.

[alice]

Pity poor Trump, being picked on by those petty police for purely politically-motivated purposes. Awwww!

[Richard W]

What's more, since 2014 Ukrainian laws have changed. It is no longer legal to provide Russian language instruction in public schools, which is going to be a hard sell for a population where Russian is the mother tongue of 82% of the population (incidentally, while Russia has eliminated Ukrainian schools in Crimea, the Crimean government's plan was to allow all three major languages, so switching to only Ukrainian schools would be like going out of the frying pan into another frying pan that sucks just as much).

Have you checked the current Ukrainian legal position on providing Russian-medium instruction? I have a dim recollection that some of the new law was thrown out as unconstitutional. However, there does seem to remain the major issue that public examinations are in Ukrainian.

[Richard W]

Well this says the Crimean Tatars have never been fans of Russia in the first place and the others in Crimea are changing their attitudes. https://www.politico.eu/article/amid-br ... -to-shift/

I can't read that to say that most inhabitants ('native' is a debatable word) of the Crimea would rather they were still part of Ukraine.

[Raphael]

Now that this thread has been quiet for a few days, may I try to bump this question of mine?

from following certain aspects of US politics, I've got the impression that if you work for the US federal government in an office job, you're basically always already with one foot in jail, because all kinds of actions that are normal standard procedures in most of the world's office workplace environments are illegal when US government employees do them. Is that true?

[Moose-tache]

What in the world are you talking about?

[Raphael]

What in the world are you talking about?

For a start, the handling of written documents produced in a workplace. Seems to me like you have to be extremely careful about how to handle those. You can't just destroy them if you think you won't need them anymore, for instance.

[Moose-tache]

If you work in government, there are levels of security clearance. Jane Doe typewriter repairwoman isn't risking legal action every time she shreds a document. If you do deal with sensitive material, you will know that ahead of time, and be trained on its proper handling. Is this not how it works in Germany?

[Raphael]

To some extent, yes, but classification laws are generally less strict in Germany, and white collar crimes in general usually at most get you probation.

[hwhatting]

To some extent, yes, but classification laws are generally less strict in Germany, and white collar crimes in general usually at most get you probation.

I don't know where you work, but the company I work for is a subsidiary of a big group (private sector, but with a residual degree of public ownership). I have to undergo trainings on data protection and document security every year, and I'm not even handling anything very sensitive. Only people with specific clearances and training can handle data from customers in the public sector (I'm not one of them). So I'd say the classification laws in Germany are stricter than you think. Like with taxes, this is one of the areas where people break the law all the time, but aren't aware of it until some authority wakes up and starts to pay attention and it suddenly all becomes pretty serious.

[Moose-tache]

The statement "Germans are chill about data security rules" has a higher density of lies than the pledge of allegiance.

[Linguoboy]

New York Attorney General files civil suit against Trump Organization, alleging widespread fraud and seeking damages, and turns over evidence to Federal prosecutors "who may wish to file criminal charges".

Please please please let this be the Al Capone moment.

[Linguoboy]

So, Ron DeSantis!

The only shores the much talked-about Red Tide bathed in the recent midterm elections were those of Florida, where he won reelection with a fatter margin than Trump one the state in 2020. This is a boost to his presidential ambitions for 2024. I was talking about those with a friend yesterday and he was of the opinion that his particular brand fascism-lite won't have great selling power outside of Florida. I'm not so sure. He's soft on climate change (for a Republican this equates to "not actively denying that it exists and presents a threat") but still hard on immigration, abortion (though he doesn't support a total ban), and other traditional GOP causes. He's particularly made a name for himself in the culture wars with Florida's "Don't Say Gay" law, which has led to calls for a boycott and even a high-profile spat with Disney.

[Travis B.]

To me DeSantis is more dangerous than Trump because A) he's smart and competent and B) at this point in the game he's more electable. We saw Trump's reverse Midas touch this time around, and this does not bode well upon Trump's chances himself as a candidate in 2024, whereas DeSantis could very well lead the Republicans to victory next time around. Sure, DeSantis may be marginally less right-wing than Trump, but the key word there is marginally - he is still very much very right wing, something that should not be forgotten.

[rotting bones]

To me DeSantis is more dangerous than Trump because A) he's smart and competent and B) at this point in the game he's more electable. We saw Trump's reverse Midas touch this time around, and this does not bode well upon Trump's chances himself as a candidate in 2024, whereas DeSantis could very well lead the Republicans to victory next time around. Sure, DeSantis may be marginally less right-wing than Trump, but the key word there is marginally - he is still very much very right wing, something that should not be forgotten.

Does Trump systematically participate in the culture war as much as DeSantis does? His comments add up to an insane QAnon rhizome.

Although personally, I'm more concerned about DeSantis' plan to lead a national economic recovery by cutting unemployment bonuses early. Unlike liberals, I also see growth in the private sector as a bad thing that ought to be ruthlessly exterminated. (Not really. Just trying out some offensive language.)

[MacAnDàil]

I suggest all the recent posts to the venting thread related to US politics can be cut and pasted here (if that's a thing the mods can do).

[MacAnDàil]

PS I do not know eneough about Batman to say whether I would prefer the Riddler or the Joker.