Pronunciation of Standard English in America (1919)

[foxcatdog]

words such as moral and towel, where he contrasts "popular" [mɔɹl], [tɑʊl] with "standard" [ˈmɔrəl], [ˈtɑʊəl]—this is sort of mindblowing to me, since i can't even figure out how to pronounce these words as one clear syllable unless i pronounce the /l/ as a clear, "light" /l/ like in german

How many syllables does "Carl" have?

one

[Rounin Ryuuji]

I tend to pronounce it as two.

[Emily]

words such as moral and towel, where he contrasts "popular" [mɔɹl], [tɑʊl] with "standard" [ˈmɔrəl], [ˈtɑʊəl]—this is sort of mindblowing to me, since i can't even figure out how to pronounce these words as one clear syllable unless i pronounce the /l/ as a clear, "light" /l/ like in german

How many syllables does "Carl" have?

like 1.5

[bradrn]

words such as moral and towel, where he contrasts "popular" [mɔɹl], [tɑʊl] with "standard" [ˈmɔrəl], [ˈtɑʊəl]—this is sort of mindblowing to me, since i can't even figure out how to pronounce these words as one clear syllable unless i pronounce the /l/ as a clear, "light" /l/ like in german

Maybe he’s talking about syllabic consonants here? As in e.g. syllabic [mɔɹl̩] vs non-syllabic [mɔɹəl], both being two syllables in total. That said, I once managed to spark considerable debate amongst family members by asking how many syllables there are in [ˈtˢæwʊ̆]. (I’d go with ‘1.5’, like what you said for Carl… which incidentally is monosyllabic [ˈkʰɑːɰ] for me.)

he also lists the standard pronunciation of diamond as three syllables

I’ve seen this in Tolkien, where you have to pronounce it this way to fit the metre in one of his poems. I recall it confusing me at the time.

apparently deal, seal, peal are standardly [-iːl] but real is standardly [ˈriːəl], which he chalks up to the different etymologies of the words

Unlike Darren and foxcatdog this isn’t the case for me: I pronounce them all the same, as something like [ˈdᶻiɯ ˈsiɯ ˈpʰiɯ ˈɻʷiɯ]. (This is similar to moral, towel above.)

• he notes that british speakers tend to insert [ə] before [r] when it follows [ɪ], [ɛ], [aɪ] (examples he gives are period, peeress, parent, miry, Byron), "but this [ə] is scarcely ever heard in America"; british posters can tell me if these words are still pronounced this way
• an exception to the above is that in fiery, the pronunciation can be either [ˈfaɪrɪ] or [ˈfaɪərɪ], and the unstated implication seems to be that the latter is standard; to me, pronouncing this without the glide has the same artificial sound as when the gym teacher in Carrie is dressing down the other girls for bullying carrie, and she says "carrie hwite has fee-lings" (instead of "feel-ings"), which i presume is mostly because the actress was probably trained in classical stage diction

I definitely have [ˈfɐjəɻʷi], and in fact also [ˈfɐjə ˈɐˑjən] for fire, iron. I think period, peeress have a schwa before the /r/, but I’m not sure. The other ones have no schwa in the first syllable.

[Travis B.]

I have:

moral: [ˈmɔːʁˤɯ(ː)] (two syllables)
towel: [ˈtʰɑːɔ̯wʊ(ː)]
Carl: [ˈkʰɑːʁˤɰ] (one syllable)
fire: [ˈfəːe̯ʁ̩ˤ(ː)]
iron: [ˈəːe̯ʁ̩̃ˤ(ː)n]

[anteallach]

I think that for me real is [ɹɪəɫ] and deal is [diəɫ]; both are one syllable but they do not rhyme. Compare the occurrence of [ɪə]~[ɪː] in words like vehicle and theatre as a result of compression of an /iːə/ sequence.

Most of the other words listed here I also perceive as monosyllabic but having a glide at the end of the vowel, except for moral which is obviously bisyllabic and towel where I have my weird MOUTH vowel and no glide into the /l/. Even fire I perceive as a monosyllable (and indeed that's how I think of the difference between pairs such as higher/hire and liar/lyre).

[Travis B.]

One thing is that I in my own dialect analyze fire as /fəe̯r/ (i.e. underlyingly a monosyllable), even though I realize it as [ˈfəːe̯ʁ̩ˤ(ː)] (i.e. surfacing as a disyllable), because I analyze firey as /ˈfəe̯ri/ (i.e. underlyingly a disyllable), which I realize as [ˈfəːe̯ʁˤi(ː)] (i.e. surfacing as a disyllable). The key thing here is that the syllabification (or lack thereof) of /r/ is not phonemic but is triggered by it falling in a coda position after /əe̯/, which is prevented by a following /i/ opening the syllable.

[Travis B.]

I also distinguish higher and hire, and liar and lyre, as follows:

higher: [ˈhaːe̯ʁ̩ˤ(ː)]
hire: [ˈhəːe̯ʁ̩ˤ(ː)]
liar: [ˈʟ̞aːe̯ʁ̩ˤ(ː)]*
lyre [ˈʟ̞əːe̯ʁ̩ˤ(ː)]*

* These often have [ɰ] instead of [ʟ̞]

Also note that hire undergoes the same alternation as fire, as in:

hiring: [ˈhəːe̯ʁˤɘ̃(ː)ŋ]~[ˈhəːe̯ʁˤɘ̃(ː)n]~[ˈhəːe̯ʁˤɘ̃(ː)]

[Travis B.]

One could argue that I do not have a phonemic contrast between [aːe̯] and [əːe̯] in [aːe̯ʁ̩ˤ(ː)] on one hand and [əːe̯ʁ̩ˤ(ː)]~[əːe̯ʁˤ] on the other hand, analyzing them as /ae̯ər/ and /ae̯r/ respecively, but I have enough distributional oddities that I prefer to analyze [a(ː)e̯] and [ə(ː)e̯] as distinct phonemes, /ae̯/ and /əe̯/.

[Emily]

i, iˑ, iː
like the [e] variants, this sound can vary in length depending on environmental factors

• the words sleek, creek, clique are standardly [iː] but commonly [ɪ] in colloquial use, "and [slɪk], in the sense 'cunning,' 'sly,' may be said to have passed into general use"
• "The pronunciation [fəˈtɪg] for fatigue [fəˈtiːg] is not cultivated usage", but apparently happens often enough to comment on it
• amenable is pronounced with [iː] and amenity is usually [ɛ] but sometimes [iː]—today, the former is a variable word with [ɛ] more common, and i've never heard someone pronounce "amenity" with [iː] in my life
• greek words spelled with æ are usually [ɛ] in the u.s. but [iː] in england (examples are Æschylus, Æsculapius, æsthetic, anapæst); words with œ are usually [iː] but sometimes [ɛ] (examples are Œnone, œcumenical, Œdipus. he does note that Æsop is always [iː]
• other words that can be either [iː] or [ɛ] include Elizabethan, scenic, fetid, fetish, leisure; he says [ɛ] is the standard pronunciation for scenic!
• either and neither are generally pronounced [iː], with the [aɪ] pronunciation occurring "occasionally . . . often as a conscious refined pronunciation" that is "popular and general nowhere in America"
• his rule of thumb for whether stressed prefix pre- is pronounced [pri-] or [prɛ-] is that [pri-] occurs "when the syllable is logically important" (prehistoric, predigested, prefix, prepay) and in some learned words "the etymological origins of which are still felt" (precinct, prefect, prelude); otherwise the pronunciation is usually [prɛ-], though he lists predecessor, predilection, premature, presentation as words that can go either way—my only real comment on this is that i have [eɪ] in "prelude"
• the ending -itis can be either [-iːtɪs] or [-aɪtɪs]: appendicitis, neuritis, phlebitis, meningitis
• oblique is usually [oˈbliːk] but occasionally [oˈblaɪk]
• [i] commonly becomes [ɪə] before [r, ɹ] (examples cereal/serial, hear, hearing, pier/peer, tier/tear), though this is not as common in american english as it is in british, and speakers who use it tend to have [iə] instead of [ɪə] in "a few words, usually of learned character" (eery, era, query, series, dreary, weary)
• the words hero, Nero, Zero are standardly [iː] but sometimes lowered to [ɪ]

[ɪ]
he notes that the spelling is usually i in stressed syllables, occasionally y

• the standard pronunciation of syringe is [ˈsɪrɪndʒ], with [sɪˈrɪndʒ] listed only as a variant
• virile can be [ˈvɪrɪl] or [ˈvaɪrɪl]
• been is [bɪn], with [biːn] as a "precise or consciously cultivated pronunciation"; no mention of [bɛn]
• breeches, breeching are typically [brɪtʃ-] but sometimes [briːtʃ-] as a spelling pronunciation
• though he transcribes words like pity, city with a final [-ɪ], he notes that the two vowels in these words are pronounced differently, and that this "relaxed" unstressed [ɪ] also appears in initial syllables such as desist, begin, initial
  • desist is transcribed [dɪˈzɪst]!
• unstressed [ɪ] can be realized as [ɪ], [ɛ], or [ə] in essentially free variation in certain environments:
  1. before the stressed syllable: begin, debate, decide have [ɪ] or [ə]; engage, except have [ɪ] or [ɛ]; and elect has any of the three
  2. after the stressed syllable: added, disgusted, naked, sonnet, rabbit, prelate, minute, honest, lettuce, palace, goodness, riches, poem, vowel, college, courage, usage, damage, manage, orange can all have [ɪ], [ɛ], or [ə]; he quotes another author as saying that [ə] in this position is common in philadelphia, nyc, and some parts of the west and south, but "in the rest of the country this pronunciation is regarded as extremely vulgar", but after quoting him goes on to disagree with the supposed disapproval the rest of the country feels towards this given how widespread it is
• college is sometimes "very formally" [ˈkɑledʒ]
• certain place names such as Cincinnati, Missouri, Ypsilanti are sometimes pronounced with a final [ə] instead of [ɪ], which he attributes to a hypercorrection from the extra -> extry change, and he speculates it may also be affected by the analogy of other place names like Nebraska, Montana, Nevada; he notes, however, that this hypercorrection only happens in names ending with the letter i, and that words and names ending in y are always [-ɪ] (heavy, busy, Albany, Schenectady)
• jaundice, in addition to the standard pronunciation [ˈdʒɔndɪs], is also often pronounced [ˈdʒɔndɚɹz] or [ˈdʒændɚɹz]

[zompist]

[*]the words sleek, creek, clique are standardly [iː] but commonly [ɪ] in colloquial use, "and [slɪk], in the sense 'cunning,' 'sly,' may be said to have passed into general use"
[*]"The pronunciation [fəˈtɪg] for fatigue [fəˈtiːg] is not cultivated usage", but apparently happens often enough to comment on it

[fəˈtɪg]?! Does anyone have that?

I'm not sure I hear clique much, but [klik] would surprise me.

There's a story that someone asked an old geezer what the name of the local creek was, and he said "crick", so they put up a sign Crick Creek. He saw it and thought if it should be the other way around.

[Ketsuban]

I'm not sure I hear clique much, but [klik] would surprise me.

I do hear USians say "click" a lot, but I always thought it was [klik] at least in UK English (altho it's not a particularly common word over here).

[anteallach]

I'm not sure I hear clique much, but [klik] would surprise me.

I do hear USians say "click" a lot, but I always thought it was [klik] at least in UK English (altho it's not a particularly common word over here).

I use it from time to time, and it certainly has FLEECE.

I also have FLEECE in amenity, mentioned by Emily.

[Travis B.]

I'm not sure I hear clique much, but [klik] would surprise me.

I do hear USians say "click" a lot, but I always thought it was [klik] at least in UK English (altho it's not a particularly common word over here).

Clique for me most undoubtedly has KIT.

[Travis B.]

I also have FLEECE in amenity, mentioned by Emily.

And that for me has DRESS.

[Linguoboy]

I'm not sure I hear clique much, but [klik] would surprise me.

I do hear USians say "click" a lot, but I always thought it was [klik] at least in UK English (altho it's not a particularly common word over here).

I said /klik/ before coming to college where I was shamed into switching to /kliːk/. I still have the short vowel in cliquish though.

[Emily]

o, oˑ, oː
again a three-way length contrast: short in locomotive, obedient, approbation, yellow, window, piano; half-long in dough-nut (lol), tow-path, go-cart; long in dough, doe, toe, tow, flow, floe, château, rote, rode, roll. tends to be a diphthong [oʊ] when fully stressed and long, especially when final

• the prefix pro- is [ˈpro-] in probate, proceeds, profile, programme, prolix (the latter also pronounced [prəˈlɪks]; it is [ɑ] or sometimes [ɔ] in problem, project, prophet, prospect, proverb; and can go either way (with [ɑ] being more general) in process, produce, product, progress, provost
  • i've never encountered the word "prolix" in my life and i've never heard "provost" spoken out loud; otherwise (assuming these are all nouns instead of verbs), i have [o] for the first series and for "produce", and [ɑ~a] for the second and third series except for "produce"; pronouncing any of the [ɑ] words [o] sounds canadian to me
• the standard pronunciation for sloth, slothful is [sloːθ], though [slɔːθ] "is not infrequent"
• loam is normally [loːm], but dialectally sometimes [luːm]
• bowie-knife could be either [ˈboːɪ-] or [ˈbuːɪ-] even in 1919, so the haters can shut it
• shone is normally [ʃoːn], [ʃoʊn], but the vowels [ɔ], [ɔː] or [ʌ] can also be heard—i pronounce it like he does, but i remember this being a surprise dialect difference on some iteration of zbb in the past
• "In Eastern New England, a number of words which elsewhere have a long vowel are pronounced with a short [o]-vowel which is slightly more fronted than the ordinary vowel, giving a mid half-front tense rounded vowel." his examples are Polk, polka, whole, both, folks, Holmes, most, only

ɔ, ɔː
ok easterners, your time to shine! (he has the long and short as two separate sections, but i'm combining them here for simplicity)

• the short version "may be best observed in polysyllables": auditory, Audubon, audacious, authentic, automatic
• it occurs with some speakers in words with an o or wa such as hot, nod, log, soft, moss, on, water, watch, soft, moss, dog; these can also be [ɑ], however, as discussed before, and in some words the vowel can vary from short to half-long to long, "or even dragged out in popular speech until they are over-long"
• [ɔ] is the "customary" pronunciation before [ŋ]: long, song, throng, wrong, though "occasional" speakers use [ɑ]; lengthening this vowel is a dialect feature
• squalor is normally [ˈskwɔlɚɹ] but sometimes [ˈskweːlɚɹ] (!!)
• the standard form of swollen is [ˈswɔlən], "but very frequently also [ˈswoːlən]"
• the long vowel [ɔː] appears in law, draw, taut, taught, thought, talk, naught, all, salt, fault, Paul, augur, aural, author, audit, strawberry, chalk-line (the last two can be half-long)
• "in the sense 'impertinent speech, 'impertinent,', popular pronunciation commonly has [sæs], [ˈsæsɪ]" for sauce, saucy—no idea these were related to sauce lol
• words that are commonly [ɔː] but pronounced [ɑː] by some speakers include daunt, flaunt, gaunt, gauntlet, haunt, launch, taunt, laundry, Laura; he notes that [æ] or [æː] are current in dialect speech for haunt and launch
• the [ɑː] pronunciation in caught, bought, talk, taught, daughter, slaughter are "current in some regions locally" or "provincialisms", with the "standard cultivated English" pronunciation being [ɔː]
• the final vowel in "Indian proper names" Choctaw, Kenesaw, Utah, Altamaha, Omaha, Ottawa is [ɔː] — do cot-caught distinguishers really pronounce "Utah" with [ɔː]???
• the spelling or is pronounced [ɔː] by non-rhotic speakers in words like corn, force, port; he notes the spelling hoss for horse in dialect stories
• or followed by a vowel is usually [ɔˑ] or [ɔː]: glory, story, tory, oral, but the (ime standard in cot-caught–merger dialects) [oˑ] or [oː] is used by "some speakers, retaining an older pronunciation probably under the influence of spelling"; the text of this paragraph states that oral and aural are merged in the standard pronunciation, but seems to imply that they are still distinguished by the speakers who use [o]
• no such variation is found before final [ɹ]: store, more, pore, pour, fore, four, for, door, floor, roar, sore, soar are all [ɔˑɹ] (or [ɔːɹ])

[zompist]

I have [ɔ] in all those words, except swollen (o), hot, nod (a), and Ottawa (ə). And yes, Utah is [jutɔ]!

[Travis B.]

I have [ɔ] in all those words, except swollen (o), hot, nod (a), and Ottawa (ə). And yes, Utah is [jutɔ]!

I am the same, except I have [ʊ] (!) in swollen, and my /ɔ/ is [ɒ] across the board except before /r/ (where I have [ɔ], except when I spelling-pronounce some words with <aur> or <awr>, where then I may have [ɒ]).

[Travis B.]

Actually, I do have [a] in squalor myself, from looking at the listed words.