Elections in various countries

[hwhatting]

Does anyone have any idea what, if anything, the recent going-ons at the Chinese Foreign Ministry mean?

I guess Xi Jinping has...

[rotting bones]

Not really about an election, but I'm bringing it up here because it's about the politics of a country that doesn't have its own dedicated politics thread:

Does anyone have any idea what, if anything, the recent going-ons at the Chinese Foreign Ministry mean?

I heard Xi Jinping has been making an economic play recently.

[Moose-tache]

An Idiot's Guide To Dutch Politics

[MacAnDàil]

An Idiot's Guide To Dutch Politics

I mostly have similar preferences to those of the blogger but, as far as I'm concerned, voting blank or not voting is generally just letting others vote instead of you and it is better to vote for anyone not awful than not vote or vote blank.

[rotting bones]

My problem is that I can't find a single popular candidate in the world who will benefit me in any way whatsoever. They're all arguing about whether to kill me slowly or quickly. On the one hand, a slow death means I might live long enough to see a brighter future. On the other hand, with how aggressively wrong about all things this generation has decided to be, a quick death might be the smarter option.

The general decline in hopefulness has not gone unnoticed among philosophers. Liberal, small-c conservatives are seriously talking about reviving Hobbesian political theory: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/64645724 With the "genius" of man unleashed, the next question is how to survive it.

[rotting bones]

An Idiot's Guide To Dutch Politics

Why are the parties doing this? For funding, obviously.

[MacAnDàil]

My problem is that I can't find a single popular candidate in the world who will benefit me in any way whatsoever. They're all arguing about whether to kill me slowly or quickly. On the one hand, a slow death means I might live long enough to see a brighter future. On the other hand, with how aggressively wrong about all things this generation has decided to be, a quick death might be the smarter option.

We'll all die some day so a slower death is preferable. It is also important for the conditions for life to remain as good as possible.

The general decline in hopefulness has not gone unnoticed among philosophers. Liberal, small-c conservatives are seriously talking about reviving Hobbesian political theory: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/64645724 With the "genius" of man unleashed, the next question is how to survive it.

Arguing thet Hobbesian political theory is based a hypothesis which may be proven false, Karl Widerquist and Grant McCall wrote Prehistoric Myths in Modern Political Philosophy which is available for free on Edinburgh University Press website: https://edinburghuniversitypress.com/bo ... sophy.html

[Moose-tache]

There is something to be said for spoiled ballots. Spoiling your ballot tells politicians "I am willing to keep myself informed, leave work early, and stand in line to vote, and I still couldn't bring myself to vote for any of you goat fuckers." It shows that you're not apathetic or indecisive, and that your vote is available to be earned at any time someone is willing and able to earn it.

[Travis B.]

There is something to be said for spoiled ballots. Spoiling your ballot tells politicians "I am willing to keep myself informed, leave work early, and stand in line to vote, and I still couldn't bring myself to vote for any of you goat fuckers." It shows that you're not apathetic or indecisive, and that your vote is available to be earned at any time someone is willing and able to earn it.

What it says is that you're willing to make a gesture that no one will notice just so you can feel good about yourself, at the expense of that you are only helping politicians who are against one's interests. Same thing with voting for third parties on FPTP systems, except that people will notice how many people foolishly helped those against them just to make a statement.

[Travis B.]

And yes, my mother is still bitter about Ralph Nader.

[Moose-tache]

Local Restaurant Patron Makes Futile Gesture,
Refuses To Order Elephant Shit Or Donkey Shit

An Alpharetta man orders against own interest by failing to choose entree at Casa de Mierda late Tuesday.

“I don’t get it. I guess he would rather make a pointless statement than pick the entree he hates the least,” says Casa de Mierda server Blake Chin. “Most customers don’t have such a hard time choosing.”

Becky Hamilton has been coming to Casa de Mierda regularly for years. “You have to read the menu carefully, or you could end up with something really bad.” Hamilton, who always orders the donkey shit, relates an experience from years ago. “One time, I was feeling adventurous, so I told the waiter to surprise me. Let me tell you, the elephant shit is much worse than the donkey shit. I won’t be making that mistake again.” When asked about the customer who refused to select from the two available entrees, Hamilton shakes her head. “Risky, very risky. That’s just asking for a big plate of elephant shit.”

A patron at another table chimes in. "So true. The donkey shit is already terrible, which is why I always pick that one."

The customer who could not select an entree has not responded to our request for a statement. Area residents continue to speculate what he could possibly be trying to prove

[Travis B.]

That's just both-sides-ism, i.e. that "both sides" are equally bad.

[malloc]

One problem with that analogy is that the results of the election apply to everyone, not just to voters for any particular candidate. If the majority or more precisely, a plurality, of voters choose elephant shit, then everyone must have elephant shit regardless of how they personally voted. If they refuse, an elephant may well sit on their face and crap in their mouth.

[zompist]

That's just both-sides-ism, i.e. that "both sides" are equally bad.

Yeah, we should have learned this last century. If a centrist and a fascist are running and you don't vote, you voted for the fascist.

[Raphael]

No matter what message not voting or spoiling your ballot might send to politicians, the message it sends to the people who stand to lose the most if the worst politicians win is "I don't care about you".

What I find interesting about this particular discussion is that in discussions of US politics, you often hear complaints about how bad having just two parties is, but this discussion started with a link to a page about politics in a country with a whole lot of parties, and the complaints are partly the same.

[Raphael]

One problem with that analogy is that the results of the election apply to everyone, not just to voters for any particular candidate. If the majority or more precisely, a plurality, of voters choose elephant shit, then everyone must have elephant shit regardless of how they personally voted. If they refuse, an elephant may well sit on their face and crap in their mouth.

For once, I completely agree with you.

[Ares Land]

That blog post does a pretty good job of pointing out the flows of the Dutch system. I get that the coalition building maneuvers can be particularly maddening. But I still think their system is better -- I believe left-wingers naturally tend to squabble and disagree and are generally less happy to follow the leader than right-wingers are. So, yeah, you have to figure out some kind of compromise if you want to enact anything like a policy you'd like. You may even have to talk to the People's Front of Judea. The advantage of a proportional/parliamentary system is that left-wing parties regularly get a shot at coalition building, and even small parties get the chance to be kingmakers once in a while.

It's worth mentioning again that the Netherlands; a country with a parliamentary system and proportional representation. It's pretty clear the stakes are lower: it's not a 'insane Nazi clown' vs 'boring smug centrist' duel like we like to hold regularly in the US or France. They'll get a marginally different coalition -- I think not voting is way more of an acceptable choice in that configuration.

Though the plethora of far-right parties suggests they won't be spared the Nazi clown problem for much longer.

[Moose-tache]

My god, nothing ever gets through to some people.

If you think blackmail is a good political system, and people are wrong to refuse to be blackmailed, then honestly you deserve the world we have now. This is why the Dems are as bad as they are. They only need to be 1 femtohitler less evil than the Republicans, which basically just means they need to take one day off a month from eating human-child ortolans, and every West Wing watching Lib will wag their fingers at you for not rubber stamping their bold policy of only eating most of the toddlers. I'm sorry, but you're just wrong for making that bargain with the Devil, and you know it.

[Ares Land]

My god, nothing ever gets through to some people.

If you think blackmail is a good political system, and people are wrong to refuse to be blackmailed, then honestly you deserve the world we have now.

He that blackmail has been a regular occurence since 2002, so just about the entirety of my voting life. I'm very unhappy about that. Watching Macron acting like he's been anointed King of France is extremely annoying, for starters.

The heart of the issue isn't the blackmail, however. The problem is that about one third of the voters want a fascist regime, law and order and to outlaw all foreigners forever. If I don't vote and refuse the blackmail, I will have made my point. If enough people do the same, that third of the electorate isn't going to suddenly see the light. What we will get, however, is a fascist or fascist-adjacent regime.
I'm not going to throw the minorities under the bus to make a point.

Refusing to be blackmailed is a fine moral stand and one I really respect, but it's ultimately pointless.

[Raphael]

I'm sorry, but you're just wrong for making that bargain with the Devil, and you know it.

Yeah, Moose, I'm not just wrong about wanting to seriously oppose fascism, I also know it. Deep down inside, I know that not opposing fascism is better than opposing fascism. Sure. Keep telling yourself that.