The "How Do You Pronounce X" Thread

[Travis B.]

"want": [wɒ̃ʔ(t)]
"wanna": [wɒ̃ɾ̃ə(ː)~[wɒ̃ːə̯̃]
"wash": [wɒʃ]
"water": [wɒɾʁ̩ˤ(ː)~[wɒːʁˤ]
"wasp": [wɑsp]
"watch": [wɒʔtʃ]
"watt": [wɑʔ(t)]
"wand": [wɑ̃ːnt], [wɑ̃ːnd] when followed by a vowel or semivowel
"wander": [ˈwɑ̃ːndʁ̩ˤ(ː)]
"wallet": [ˈwɑːɤ̯ɘʔ(t)]

[Darren]

[wɒnʔ]
[ˈwɒɾ̃ɜ]
[wɒʃ]
[ˈwʊːɾɜ]
[wɒsp̚ʔ]
[wɒʔtʃ]
[wɒt]
[wɒnd]
[ˈwɒndɜ]
[ˈwɒɫ̪ɜʔ]

Nothing too surprising there I'm afraid

[Nortaneous]

[wɑnt]
[wɑɾ̃ə]
[wɑʃ]
[wɑɾɚ]
[wɑsp]
[wɑtʃ]
[wɑt]
[wɑnd]
[wɑndɚ]
[wɒˁɫᵻʔ]

[jal]

I've always assumed, and probably heard, that "mall" in "shopping mall", has the THOUGHT vowel. However, it seems that at least some American or Canadian people use an unrounded vowel, more akin to LOT. Is this a known phenomenon, or is my recollection just bad?


JAL

[Travis B.]

I've always assumed, and probably heard, that "mall" in "shopping mall", has the THOUGHT vowel. However, it seems that at least some American or Canadian people use an unrounded vowel, more akin to LOT. Is this a known phenomenon, or is my recollection just bad?


JAL

Mall does have the THOUGHT vowel. It just turns out that many NAE-speakers have an unrounded THOUGHT vowel, including both most cot-caught-merged speakers outside of Canada and eastern New England and some speakers with the NCVS such as my mother where both LOT and THOUGHT are unrounded but contrast w.r.t. frontness/backness.

[jal]

Thanks! Didn't think of an unrounded THOUGHT. For us Dutchies the distinction between THOUGHT and LOT is very difficult to hear anyway, so unrounded versions are also hard to distinguish.


JAL

[foxcatdog]

fort and thought are pronounced exactly the same for me

[Raphael]

fort and thought are pronounced exactly the same for me

Do you mean just the vowel, or the entire word?

[Darren]

I wonder what the largest merger of lexical sets any major dialect has. I've got the NORTH/THOUGHT/FORCE/CURE merger. NAm low vowels puzzle me but maybe there's like a LOT/CLOTH/THOUGHT/FATHER merger or something.

[jal]

fort and thought are pronounced exactly the same for me

Do you mean just the vowel, or the entire word?

If they are a speaker of Estuary English or something adjacent, probably the entire word (since /θ/ > [f]). Also "fought", probably.


JAL

[Travis B.]

Thanks! Didn't think of an unrounded THOUGHT. For us Dutchies the distinction between THOUGHT and LOT is very difficult to hear anyway, so unrounded versions are also hard to distinguish.

In my mother's speech LOT is akin to Dutch /aː/ and THOUGHT is akin to Dutch /ɑ/ except that LOT isn't quite as far front (when I've heard Dutch /aː/ it has even sounded like English /æ/ to my ears) and there is no length distinction (as in most of NAE length is allophonic).

[Travis B.]

fort and thought are pronounced exactly the same for me

Do you mean just the vowel, or the entire word?

I can easily see Estuary-speakers merging fort and thought completely myself.

[Travis B.]

I wonder what the largest merger of lexical sets any major dialect has. I've got the NORTH/THOUGHT/FORCE/CURE merger. NAm low vowels puzzle me but maybe there's like a LOT/CLOTH/THOUGHT/FATHER merger or something.

You could consider many NAE varieties as having LOT/CLOTH/THOUGHT/FATHER/PALM mergers, if one considers FATHER and PALM as distinct sets in some dialects (because for me FATHER has [a] and PALM has [ɑ] except adjacent to /r w h kw gw/ where they merge as [ɑ]).

[Emily]

I wonder what the largest merger of lexical sets any major dialect has. I've got the NORTH/THOUGHT/FORCE/CURE merger. NAm low vowels puzzle me but maybe there's like a LOT/CLOTH/THOUGHT/FATHER merger or something.

there is, it's basically everywhere west of the prairies

[Travis B.]

I just realized that I don't have raising of /æ/ to /eɪ/ before /ŋ/ in Vancouver, as I pronounce it with [ɛ̃] rather than the expected [ẽ̞].

[Richard W]

I can easily see Estuary-speakers merging fort and thought completely myself.

And not just Estuarine. The merger of /θ/ and /f/ turns up all over Britain. I suspect glottal stop droppers would also merge thaw and four with them.

[ratammer]

It's hard to analyse it because thinking about it changes it, but I'm pretty sure, for me, in casual speech:

• fought = fort
• thought = fault

And neither pair matches the other. I have no idea why this would be the case, because fought and thought definitely look like they should rhyme, and f and th mostly merge for me when I'm not enunciating. But if I say sentences that contain "thought" and intentionally pronounce it as either "fort" or "fault", it's the "fault" pronunciation that sounds more natural.

[jal]

And neither pair matches the other. I have no idea why this would be the case, because fought and thought definitely look like they should rhyme, and f and th mostly merge for me when I'm not enunciating. But if I say sentences that contain "thought" and intentionally pronounce it as either "fort" or "fault", it's the "fault" pronunciation that sounds more natural.

So what's the difference in vowel then between the pairs?


JAL

[Travis B.]

It's hard to analyse it because thinking about it changes it, but I'm pretty sure, for me, in casual speech:

• fought = fort
• thought = fault

And neither pair matches the other. I have no idea why this would be the case, because fought and thought definitely look like they should rhyme, and f and th mostly merge for me when I'm not enunciating. But if I say sentences that contain "thought" and intentionally pronounce it as either "fort" or "fault", it's the "fault" pronunciation that sounds more natural.

Are you not horse-hoarse merged?

[ratammer]

Are you not horse-hoarse merged?

Horse and hoarse are homophones for me.

So what's the difference in vowel then between the pairs?

I'm not good at IPA so here's a clip: "fort" then "fault". Bear in mind this is me intentionally trying to emulate casual speech - if I was enunciating, "thought" would have a th sound and would definitely rhyme with "fought" (which would still be identical to "fort"), and "fault" would have a distinct L sound. I can't explain the difference, I just know what sounds right to me.