United States Politics Thread 46

[keenir]

Why would the Russians suddenly become competent?

Maybe because they suddenly get an influx of classified intel from someone who has shown complete disregard for guarding US military secrets

As many of us saw befall others in school, cheating does not create competency.

[Ares Land]

Why would the Russians suddenly become competent? Why would the Europeans suddenly kowtow to a US that rejects them?

Even taking Russian incompetence into account, the Ukrainians can't do much without Western help, specifically weapons and military supplies. That's something a Trump presidency may change.
As for Europeans, it's worth keeping in mind some EU leaders (Orban, Meloni) are more or less aligned with Trump/Putin. Germany is going to be busy with elections and coalition building; and more generally European is not necessarily doing too well at the moment.

There certainly is a possibility that Trump and Putin will be left alone to negotiate, and that'd be almost certainly bad news for Ukraine.

Incidentally, I don't understand the whole "city people vs country people" side conversation going on here. The US population is over 80% urban. A third of all rural residents voted for Harris; 40% of urbanites voted for Trump. Harris also lost the suburbs (albeit narrowly). It wasn't the urban/rural divide that decided the election. That hasn't been the case for decades and won't be the case for the foreseeable.

It might be cities vs. small towns, though. This gives the threshold at 5,000 which isn't much: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-r ... tions.html (also, I'm really not familiar enough with the US to see how they define an 'area'. Is it a county? Town? Something else entirely?

[Raphael]

(also, I'm really not familiar enough with the US to see how they define an 'area'. Is it a county? Town? Something else entirely?

I think it's Census Office internal terminology, used to be able to compare areas in different states which might use different local government terminology.

[MacAnDàil]

This is a problem with overly focusing on the economy. You may get a self-proclaimed greedy person (along with his other faults of course). Morality should trump the economy.

PS also overly focusing on immigration/people moving house across countries. It just plays into the xenophobes' hands.

No one is telling people to care about the economy. They just do. If they didn't, nature would select against their survival.

Why do you think that the non-economy-focussers would not survive? And that it would be appropriate to focus on that?

And if you tell them to care about morality, they will take it as carte blanche to commit genocide. Humanity doesn't agree with your idea of what it means to be moral. So much so that the economy is pretty much the only thing that could motivate people to support the left.

How would placing importance on morality lead to genocide, the opposite of morality? Why do you think that left could not be supported on a myriad of bases?

[willm]

I think it's Census Office internal terminology, used to be able to compare areas in different states which might use different local government terminology.

The Census Bureau divides the US into tiny areas called census blocks (apparently there are over 8,000,000 of them) and groups contiguous ones over a certain population density into urban areas. So they don't correspond to any level of local government; they're just statistical constructs.

[Linguoboy]

It might be cities vs. small towns, though. This gives the threshold at 5,000 which isn't much: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-r ... tions.html (also, I'm really not familiar enough with the US to see how they define an 'area'. Is it a county? Town? Something else entirely?

But it's not. I just explained that according to exit polls, Trump got 51% of the suburban vote. The suburbs have been a major focus for recent political campaigns, with a swing of a few points among suburban white women sufficient to decide all manner of elections.

You didn't have to drive far from where I live to see Trump signs. Hell, you didn't even have to leave the city limits.

[fusijui]

Similar here. Not with yard signs, as it's too built-up for yards where I live -- but, for a deep-blue city in a blue state, there's no shortage of stickering, bumperstickers, postering, etc., like you describe.

[Raphael]

I just explained that according to exit polls, Trump got 51% of the suburban vote. The suburbs have been a major focus for recent political campaigns, with a swing of a few points among suburban white women sufficient to decide all manner of elections.

Then again, arguably one main reason why swings of a few points among suburban white women are often sufficient to decide all manner of elections is that so many other voter groups, including rural and urban ones, go reliably to the one or other party.

[Emily]

yeah, i don't think the question is really "why did so many people go to trump", because they didn't. obviously the numbers aren't finalized yet but as of right now trump gained about a million voters over his popular vote count in 2020, while harris's count is 9 million shorter than biden's that same year. it's looking like voter turnout is millions lower than in 2020 as well. this wasn't so much a trump win as a harris loss. and anyone who's serious about wanting the democrats to win needs to go beyond "well voters are all just too stupid" and actually examine how and why the democrats whiffed this one so bad

[Linguoboy]

Then again, arguably one main reason why swings of a few points among suburban white women are often sufficient to decide all manner of elections is that so many other voter groups, including rural and urban ones, go reliably to the one or other party.

Or perhaps it's just a function of them being the largest single demographic bloc in the electorate. A huge swing in, say, inner-city Asian men, is hardly a blip on the national map.

[keenir]

whether its huge hyperbole or close to accurate, I heard an off-the-cuff estimate that 1/3 of the US voters simply didn't vote - some because they didn't like either canidate, others for other reasons.

[malloc]

Aside from my grief over the catastrophic future that awaits us, I am deeply furious at the American people for their shameful decision to reëlect possibly the worst candidate in US history. The first time around, I feel inclined to excuse as sheer dumb luck and technicalities, but this time they gave him an unambiguous majority. More than half of Americans lived through the disaster of COVID, watched him attempt a coup, and heard about his dozens of felony charges and convictions and still voted for him. Americans have revealed themselves as incorrigibly bigoted and stupid in equal measure.

[Raholeun]

Aside from my grief over the catastrophic future that awaits us, I am deeply furious at the American people for their shameful decision to reëlect possibly the worst candidate in US history. The first time around, I feel inclined to excuse as sheer dumb luck and technicalities, but this time they gave him an unambiguous majority. More than half of Americans lived through the disaster of COVID, watched him attempt a coup, and heard about his dozens of felony charges and convictions and still voted for him. Americans have revealed themselves as incorrigibly bigoted and stupid in equal measure.

I read that in Trump's voice. "We have the best bigots!"

[Raholeun]

Incorrigible Bigotry, by the way, is the name of a 2002 death metal album by, coincidentally, a group of incorrigible bigots.