United States Politics Thread 46

[Raphael]

"We stood up to Big Tech, and now Big Tech is trying to punish the country for that! Are you with us, or with Big Tech?"

I wonder how long people would be willing to go without Facebook or Instagram.

My point is, attempts to punish people in order to get them to put pressure on their own governments usually backfire.

[alice]

On a different note: who do you think has been making the death threats to Trump's appointees? Right-wingers who think Trump's showing signs of being a bit further left than they're comfortable with?

[Raphael]

On a different note: who do you think has been making the death threats to Trump's appointees? Right-wingers who think Trump's showing signs of being a bit further left than they're comfortable with?

That idea sounds a bit too convenient for me. People on the Left can do bad things, too.

[Travis B.]

On a different note: who do you think has been making the death threats to Trump's appointees? Right-wingers who think Trump's showing signs of being a bit further left than they're comfortable with?

That idea sounds a bit too convenient for me. People on the Left can do bad things, too.

Thing is, death threats are more the Right's style.

[bradrn]

Interesting to see all the commentary here. My own impressions are that everyone here is no less confused, and the government’s approach is basically ‘pass the bill and then figure out how to do it’. For every comment about the horrors of social media (and don’t get me wrong, I fully agree with those), there has been another comment about how great social media can be for isolated children to connect with people like them, so people are certainly aware of the issues here.

Regarding the ZBB and other such small sites, I strongly suspect that they will not be banned. Either because they have no Australian presence, or because there will be some kind of revenue criterion on the regulations, or because they just don’t care enough to go after a random person running something elsewhere, or all three. But ultimately it depends on how the regulations are actually written.

[zompist]

Regarding the ZBB and other such small sites, I strongly suspect that they will not be banned. Either because they have no Australian presence, or because there will be some kind of revenue criterion on the regulations, or because they just don’t care enough to go after a random person running something elsewhere, or all three. But ultimately it depends on how the regulations are actually written.

The idea that a random phpBB operator not only has to know the laws of 194 countries, but their regulations, seems ridiculous. Australia cannot legislate nor prosecute outside its borders. For that matter, you can't extradite someone for something that isn't a crime in their host country.

Of course Facebook et al., the real targets, will have to do something, as Australia could simply prevent their websites from appearing. At least, I assume it could, as Brazil blocked Twitter for awhile earlier this year. (Everyone will say "use VPNs", but VPNs are known and can be blocked as well.)

From news reports, they exempted Youtube, which makes the project seem unserious. Apparently some commissioner gets to decide what sites are affected.

[bradrn]

Of course Facebook et al., the real targets, will have to do something, as Australia could simply prevent their websites from appearing. At least, I assume it could, as Brazil blocked Twitter for awhile earlier this year. (Everyone will say "use VPNs", but VPNs are known and can be blocked as well.)

Yes, indeed. This is the whole point.

From news reports, they exempted Youtube, which makes the project seem unserious. Apparently some commissioner gets to decide what sites are affected.

I do recall there being some debate about YouTube being a special case, due to having legitimate uses by children. I found news articles talking about lobbying from The Wiggles, of all people…

[jcb]

Future generations will be as surprised that the online crossword company has a press bureau as we are that the people who give stars to restaurants have tire factories.

Remnids me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQIpoIH1bCA

Liberals do, and they love patting themselves on the back for it.

Right, second only to the New York Times... which is an absolute monarchy. Oops! It's pretty funny how illiberal the liberal sense-making institutions are.

But they won't be relevant for much longer. The Washington Post is the #2 paper in a world where Magnus Carlsen is famous and Fabiano Caruana is not, and outside liberal bubbles the New York Times is considered as trustworthy as the Daily Mail. Future generations will be as surprised that the online crossword company has a press bureau as we are that the people who give stars to restaurants have tire factories.

I realize this is a lost battle by now, but both of you are demonstrating that "liberal" has no meaning any more. The people who love the NYT are centrists; that is, moderate and conservative Democrats, and whatever little fringe of moderate Republicans still exist.

How would you divide, name, and describe the different political factions in America nowdays?

[zompist]

[I realize this is a lost battle by now, but both of you are demonstrating that "liberal" has no meaning any more. The people who love the NYT are centrists; that is, moderate and conservative Democrats, and whatever little fringe of moderate Republicans still exist.

How would you divide, name, and describe the different political factions in America nowdays?

As most Americans do: across parties, by conservative, moderate (= centrist), liberal. E.g. from Pew polls:



Note that among Democrats, just more than half describe themselves as moderate or conservative. And the percentage of liberals has risen-- it was 25% of the party in the early 90s.

When you attack "liberals", you are attacking the leftmost part of the Democrats-- people who might call themselves progressives or socialists. It's probably worth remembering that about half of the Democrats voted for Sanders. Guess which half?

Of course people use these terms in a relative fashion, so the NYT is more liberal than Fox News. But it's pretty ridiculous to call it a liberal paper; it's the voice of the center-left... the people who call themselves "moderate or conservative Democrats".