The "How Do You Pronounce X" Thread

[anteallach]

Another thought: Are there any English speakers somewhere that distinguish /Ir/ and /ir/?

Oh, most definitely, all of England and the Commonwealth afaik. For me "zero" is [ˈziɻɐy̯] and "hero" is [ˈhiːɻɐy̯], which you could analyse as /ɪ/ vs. /iː/, although you could also say /ɪ/ vs. /ɪə̯/ (i.e. Australian /i/ vs. /ɪː/).

I'm a bit surprised by that. For me the two words rhyme, and have my NEAR vowel, though I don't think there is any contrast between NEAR and FLEECE in this environment. There is of course a contrast between NEAR and KIT (e.g. serious and Sirius), which most AmE speakers don't have; if you treat NEAR as underlyingly /iː/ before /r/ then that would give a /ɪr/ vs. /iːr/ contrast.

[anteallach]

Oh, most definitely, all of England and the Commonwealth afaik. For me "zero" is [ˈziɻɐy̯] and "hero" is [ˈhiːɻɐy̯], which you could analyse as /ɪ/ vs. /iː/, although you could also say /ɪ/ vs. /ɪə̯/ (i.e. Australian /i/ vs. /ɪː/).

Do they distinguish /u/ and /U/ too?

I can only thing of one word with /ʊr/, which is "courier", and that's [ˈkʰʊɻəjə], distinct from e.g. "mercurial" [məˈcçjöːɹəjəɫʷ], but I also have a north/thought/force/cure merger, so "mercurial" has the same vowel as "glorious" [ˈgɫʷöːɻəjəs]. The distinction again is very close to being one of length. I'm not sure of the exact value of "ö" but it's a lot closer to schwa than my regular n/th/f/cure [o̝ː].

Yes, courier is the classic example of FOOT before /r/.

I do have a distinct CURE, and I think CURE/FOOT is close to a pure length contrast, but both vowels are relatively rare (in particular CURE mostly occurs after /j/; I have FORCE in a lot of the potential examples where it's not) so it's hard to get them in the same environment.

[Travis B.]

I personally have /ˈzɪroʊ/ [ˈzɪːʁˤo̞(ː)(w)] for zero, and I don't distinguish Sirius from serious. For the record, hero for me is /ˈhɪroʊ/ [ˈhɪːʁˤo̞(ː)(w)]. Interestingly enough I intuitively perceive both of these vowels as tense, even though it is more open than my FLEECE not before /r/. This is probably because my normal KIT is much more central than my vowel in zero and hero outside of markedly careful speech.

About courier, it is very common for North Americans to have NURSE in this word ─ e.g. I have /ˈkɜriər/ [ˈkʰʁ̩ˤːʁˤiːʁ̩ˤ(ː)] (yes that looks like a mouthful) for it. For the record, my mercurial also has NURSE, being /mərˈkjɜriəl/ [mʁ̩ˤˈcʰj̥ʁ̩ˤːʁˤiːɯ(ː)].

For me, CURE when it is not merged with NURSE has a tense vowel followed by [ʁˤ] while FOOT has a lax (and before /d/ lowered and centralized) vowel.

[Darren]

I almost have NURSE in /joːrV/ sequences which is weird to think about since it's such an American shibboleth (saying "c[jəː]rious" doesn't sound unnatural, although saying e.g. [kjəː] does). I've also noticed that the sequence /jəʉ̯/ (i.e. /j/ + GOOSE) tends to lose the schwa nucleus and approach [jyy̯]. Synchronically it makes sense to analyse it as a triphthong. And possibly /joː/ as a diphthong.

[jal]

What vowel do people have in ZERO? I have /e/, but I just found out according to wiktionary ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zero#English ) that some (most?) people have /I/ (what I would call /i/).

Note that Wiktionary is nortoriously bad in describing pronunciation, or so I've been told. As for /e/, it's been said that wouldn't it be for English and related European languages, [e] and [ɪ] wouldn't have two different symbols.

recordings for ZERO to HERO ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hero#English ) or EAR ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ear#English ), I swear that ZERO has /e/, and HERO/EAR has /i/, despite both being labelled as having /IroU/.

I'm not a native speaker, but I would pronounce "zero" and "hero" the same (I'd reserve all caps for lexical sets btw), with a monophthong /ɪ/. At least that vowel is much lower than that of FLEECE (or, alternatively, I don't think "zero" and hypothetical "zeero"/"zearow" would sound the same). Note this could well be influence by my native Dutch, which has [ɪː] as allophone of /e/ before /r/). "ear" has NEAR, so it's a diphthong.


JAL

[Travis B.]

What vowel do people have in ZERO? I have /e/, but I just found out according to wiktionary ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zero#English ) that some (most?) people have /I/ (what I would call /i/).

Note that Wiktionary is nortoriously bad in describing pronunciation, or so I've been told. As for /e/, it's been said that wouldn't it be for English and related European languages, [e] and [ɪ] wouldn't have two different symbols.

Don't forget many African languages too.

[jal]

Don't forget many African languages too.

I know little about those, but I was relaying what I've heard. At least in European languages there always seem to be other contrasts than mere position (length, "tenseness" etc.).


JAL

[jcb]

Another thought: Are there any English speakers somewhere that distinguish /Ir/ and /ir/?

Oh, most definitely, all of England and the Commonwealth afaik. For me "zero" is [ˈziɻɐy̯] and "hero" is [ˈhiːɻɐy̯], which you could analyse as /ɪ/ vs. /iː/, although you could also say /ɪ/ vs. /ɪə̯/ (i.e. Australian /i/ vs. /ɪː/).

I'm a bit surprised by that. For me the two words rhyme, and have my NEAR vowel, though I don't think there is any contrast between NEAR and FLEECE in this environment. There is of course a contrast between NEAR and KIT (e.g. serious and Sirius), which most AmE speakers don't have; if you treat NEAR as underlyingly /iː/ before /r/ then that would give a /ɪr/ vs. /iːr/ contrast.

So, to you, what phoneme does it sound like Bill Gates is using in this clip?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=s ... rM1mcKmX_c

For the record, my mercurial also has NURSE, being /mərˈkjɜriəl/ [mʁ̩ˤˈcʰj̥ʁ̩ˤːʁˤiːɯ(ː)].

Wait, you have /kjɜr/ (as in "pure, cure") in "mercurial"? How do you pronounce "mercury"?

For me:
"mercurial" = /mr=."kr=.ri.l=/
"mercury" = /"mr=.kr=.ri/

[Travis B.]

For the record, my mercurial also has NURSE, being /mərˈkjɜriəl/ [mʁ̩ˤˈcʰj̥ʁ̩ˤːʁˤiːɯ(ː)].

Wait, you have /kjɜr/ (as in "pure, cure") in "mercurial"? How do you pronounce "mercury"?

For me:
"mercurial" = /mr=."kr=.ri.l=/
"mercury" = /"mr=.kr=.ri/

Yes, except that I never have /jur/ in mercurial, unlike pure and cure. I have /ˈmɜrkjəri/ [ˈmʁ̩ˤcjʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)] for mercury.