I'd be happy for you to translate the torchLērisama wrote: ↑Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:58 am I'm just going into a period where I'll have lots of time to do conlangery, and I've always wanted to do one of these, so if people agreed and the last person (I think Darren) wanted to send me their torch, I'd be happy to do the last step, so we'd at least have the final result, although we wouldn't have each torch unless people still had them and sent them on here.
2024 Translation Relay
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Could you send me it then, please?
Edit: Darren has now sent me the torch. I am now starting work on it. Wish me luck.
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
I have finished my final translation, and am putting it on here. If foxcatdog is still involved¹ and can edit this into a final messge with all the torches, please do so, if not, then if people send me their texts & translations, or put them on here, I'm happy to edit them in here.
¹ I am unsure how much of this was delegated to me, hence this messageA probably badly misunderstood Darren possibly wrote:Cmatros got ready while Ardin whimpered. Ardin was breathing with difficulty. Cmatros tried to hide himself here, breathing carefully. Breathing steadily, he ran out of his house touching clothing and releasing it. He saw Ardin running was too young to help him enough. He was following some people, and shouting insults at their running. Cmatros began to run around and so Ardin began to follow. Cmatros grabbed them, running through the night, shouting and starting to attack. A weak line of light appeared along the dawning horizon; night was ending. Cmatros followed the arriving light, and said to them that he was running in order to hunt elsewhere. I didn't know Ardin did it.
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Oh dear. It would appear that, for the second relay in a row, people got stuck on my name translations (which this time around were Kmatrob and Arnim)…
Anyway, I’d be interested to see the original text!
Anyway, I’d be interested to see the original text!
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Re: 2024 Translation Relay
I did work out the meaning of those (it was like "black tail" and "white leg" or something along those lines) but I just couldn't bring myself to use that kind of name so I just borrowed yours.
And if memory serves, that's an excellent translation of my torch.Lērisama wrote: ↑Mon Jun 23, 2025 4:27 am¹ I am unsure how much of this was delegated to me, hence this messageA probably badly misunderstood Darren possibly wrote:Cmatros got ready while Ardin whimpered. Ardin was breathing with difficulty. Cmatros tried to hide himself here, breathing carefully. Breathing steadily, he ran out of his house touching clothing and releasing it. He saw Ardin running was too young to help him enough. He was following some people, and shouting insults at their running. Cmatros began to run around and so Ardin began to follow. Cmatros grabbed them, running through the night, shouting and starting to attack. A weak line of light appeared along the dawning horizon; night was ending. Cmatros followed the arriving light, and said to them that he was running in order to hunt elsewhere. I didn't know Ardin did it.
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Well done. In Vilike’s torch they were Pok-p'oakk and Tet-pheakk, translating precisely as ‘Blackwing’ and ‘Whitetail’. (I assume you simply misremembered which noun went with which modifier.) From context, I’m pretty sure the main characters were birds, or at any rate some sort of flying creature.
(Incidentally: I liked these Eŋes names enough that I’ve decided to use this sort of noun-adjective construction in-world for the majority of first names amongst the Eŋes. It feels very ‘Eŋes-ic’, for lack of a better word.)
For completeness — and until foxcatdog posts the complete list of all torches — my own translation was as follows:
Blackwing carefully remained still as she heard Whitetail’s whines, and its inability to breathe deeply. But Blackwing had to come out of her comfortable hiding-spot with a big sternum. She began to breathe in and out, preparing her talons. She shook her feathers and flew out of the nest.And notes (passed on to foxcatdog too):
She briefly turned her head around to look back at Whitetail’s body, grey-striped and now useless. She heard things growling as they flew through the air. Again Blackwing turned, making the others follow. They growled aggressively as they felt her brush under in the night.
Underneath the night, a faint sketch of a line on the horizon began to push away the darkness. It widened irregularly, revealing day. Below, the light covered the land, revealing a waterfall. It is said that it would take a long time to walk the path of those lightbeams flying down to the hunting grounds below.
- The text I got from Vilike was formatted with one line for each sentence. I tried to organise the sentences into paragraphs in a way which made sense to me.
- Dri Mreatt and Eŋes are in many ways remarkably similar in structure. In general, I’d say that the Eŋes text is closer to the Dri Mreatt than the English is to either.
- Regarding the translation itself, I felt that the first paragraph was mostly easy to understand, the second was more difficult, and the last turned into borderline gibberish. I did my best…
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Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Eŋes is really a lot of fun to translate. It's not very hard to gloss as long as you can work out which bit is the root; going from a gloss to translation was a bit harder though. It did feel like there was a kind of consistent story, but towards the end I got confused about who was doing what so I just kind of guessed and fiddled with it a bit. I'm also keen to see the full progress of the torch.
I'd also be up for another relay, but maybe with a bit tighter of a deadline (this one seemed to drag on a lot).
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
The most recent one on the other place had a ‘hard’ time limit of a week, as in, you were skipped if you took longer than your time limit, which seemed to be liked over there¹. The main advantage of this from my point of view is that the timings could be published in advance, but it does seem a bit too strict.
¹ Although their relays tend to be longer than ours, and this last one was about double the length of this, I think
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Interesting — that does make sense to me.
Well, that means my translation must have worked, then! (See my last bullet point.)It did feel like there was a kind of consistent story, but towards the end I got confused about who was doing what so I just kind of guessed and fiddled with it a bit. I'm also keen to see the full progress of the torch.
They always drag on a lot. Admittedly, it didn’t help that foxcatdog went on holiday at an inconvenient time — or, for that matter, that Emily gave up entirely on your torch…I'd also be up for another relay, but maybe with a bit tighter of a deadline (this one seemed to drag on a lot).
To me, that does feel a bit strict. And what happens when someone does inevitably go over?Lērisama wrote: ↑Tue Jun 24, 2025 5:15 am The most recent one on the other place had a ‘hard’ time limit of a week, as in, you were skipped if you took longer than your time limit, which seemed to be liked over there¹. The main advantage of this from my point of view is that the timings could be published in advance, but it does seem a bit too strict.
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Re: 2024 Translation Relay
My translation from Zju's Lùlàjnòj:
I'd say it's 85% there! Also, having a better command of English, you had a more natural translation than mine, especially wrt the third paragraph.
He doesn't move while the cries of Whitetail are fading: Blackwing feels her final breath departing her body.Lùlàjnòj used sort of a switch-reference system to disambiguate between multiple third persons, while Dri Mreatt is pro-drop when coreferencing, which could have led to other ambiguities. Apparently that's what happened in the clauses relating of my 'foreigners' and bradrn's 'things'.
The feeling that he's hidden very well comforts him, relaxes the tightening in his chest.
Breathing deeply, Blackwing readies his feet.
With his feathers, he takes off from the nest.
He turns briefly to look at the grey, striped body that Whitetail won't need anymore.
Whispering around: "We will continue into the air."
He turns around to let the foreigners pass along.
In the shadow, they feel their hair brush against him, and let off an angry purr.
In the shadow far away, a coarse wall points towards the horizon and the shadow recedes.
There, the sun is shining chaotically and brightly.
Its light falls like a waterfall upon the land.
One hears: "I have been a traveller a long time, following the path of the sun towards this land of the hunt."
I'd say it's 85% there! Also, having a better command of English, you had a more natural translation than mine, especially wrt the third paragraph.
Yaa unák thual na !
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
…gosh. That’s a great deal more depressing than my interpretation. I’ll have to re-check my Dri Mreatt gloss when I get back to my computer!
Huh — so that makes three languages in a row with some sort of switch-reference-esque system (since mine also had one). You’d think that would make it easier…Vilike wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 8:41 am Lùlàjnòj used sort of a switch-reference system to disambiguate between multiple third persons, while Dri Mreatt is pro-drop when coreferencing, which could have led to other ambiguities. Apparently that's what happened in the clauses relating of my 'foreigners' and bradrn's 'things'.
I did specifically try to make the English read smoothly. The first draft was more difficult to understand.I'd say it's 85% there! Also, having a better command of English, you had a more natural translation than mine, especially wrt the third paragraph.
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Re: 2024 Translation Relay
manja ekari na mala tu panaapa nansa murikatanimi tu amata turi anda na mai śińi papa na mai
NEG pass EXCLM cry of tail+white fade LNK wing+black+verbal.DIM=dark.grey of feel breath final LNK 3.m leave body LNK 3.m
“Don’t go!” White Tail’s cry faded as Grey Wing felt his last breath leave his body.
tu karamitikiwi arana runa na mai katinari na mai tu amata aniti aniti aniti kurumaa aka aka noromuka
of feel+instance.NOM+tight be.in.IMPF chest LNK 3.m to.comfort+Anticausatative LNK 3.m of feel hidden hidden hidden jaw+PL TERM TERM release+AUG
The tightness in his chest eased as he felt the invisible jaws finally let go.
mamanitikuri turi turi murikatanimi kukuritu amarata na mai
IMPF-hand+use=grasp breath breath wing+black+verbal.DIM=dark.grey IMPF-get.ready paw-Dual LNK 3.m
Drawing in a deep breath, Grey Wing got to his paws.
tin sinsimaa mai kukusii wa nita na mai
INST feather-PL 3.m foot+go ABL nest LNK 3.m
Lightly he stepped from his nest.
mai mama karusu wa akanu morunindi orrininanir panaapa susinani koko koko sim papa mai nami nami juranimaais
3.m Momentative look.back ABL see stone+quartz silvery.grey+stripe tail+white ear+black hold.IMPF hold.IMPF LOC.OUT body 3.m NEG.COP.3.sg NEG.COP.3.sg need.IMPF+PERF
He glanced back and saw Slate, Silver Stripe, White Tail and Black Ear clinging to the body he no longer needed.
ne kura kura kura jajarakamaimai mai mipi mipi
1.sg be.doing be.doing be.doing IMPF-gaze/watch-FUT-FUT 3.m whisper whisper
“I will always be watching you,” he whispered.
mai kʷeli nar nar omikamaa naskai nar mee amimi ni sii ekarimiin
3.m turn LAT LAT wildcat-PL star+ADJ LAT DEM.Spec move.aside DAT 3.m go pass-Permissive
He turned towards the starry cats, and they moved aside and let him pass.
amarama nar ka maramaa tu masku mai amata kuki na sin paa na mai na upuri rurrutamaa tu ju kommami tu nuwa
paw+VERB LAT LOC.INN shadow-pl of den 3.m feel pelt LNK 3.pl brush LNK 3.m LNK hear purr+NOM+pl of COM bow+instance.NOM of head
Padding into the shadows of the den, he felt their pelts brush his and heard their welcoming purrs.
mai nawa ju sin awapa ka nar masku wa kuru kukumaa numa sim nar apai tu papana maranamaa kusikiwawan
3.m walk COM 3.pl deep-COMP LOC.INN LAT darkness ABL wall-pl rough open LOC.OUT LAT horizon of IMPF-curve hill-pl be.open+massive
He walked at their side, deeper into the darkness, until the gorse walls opened onto a vast horizon of rolling hills.
sim amara naja wawawan nar imimaa ńi nawamaa tu kita amaimiri kanui asasai asasai sim nar wa mata
LOC.OUT be.remote sun IMPF-rise LAT send.IMPF Metaphorical stream-PL of light dazzling+bright be chaotic IMPF-flow IMPF-flow LOC.OUT LAT ABL earth
In the distance, the sun was rising sending dazzling streams of light spilling over the earth.
ne isiis amari natai tu inuis natai nar nawa mipi aramanaja upurin nar nani animakʷurina
1.sg go-PERF be.far extent.of of love-PERF extent.of LAT yet 1.sg still IMPF-follow path+sun to.head LAT be.new place+hunt
I have traveled so far and loved so much, and yet I am still following the sun trail, heading for new hunting grounds.
NEG pass EXCLM cry of tail+white fade LNK wing+black+verbal.DIM=dark.grey of feel breath final LNK 3.m leave body LNK 3.m
“Don’t go!” White Tail’s cry faded as Grey Wing felt his last breath leave his body.
tu karamitikiwi arana runa na mai katinari na mai tu amata aniti aniti aniti kurumaa aka aka noromuka
of feel+instance.NOM+tight be.in.IMPF chest LNK 3.m to.comfort+Anticausatative LNK 3.m of feel hidden hidden hidden jaw+PL TERM TERM release+AUG
The tightness in his chest eased as he felt the invisible jaws finally let go.
mamanitikuri turi turi murikatanimi kukuritu amarata na mai
IMPF-hand+use=grasp breath breath wing+black+verbal.DIM=dark.grey IMPF-get.ready paw-Dual LNK 3.m
Drawing in a deep breath, Grey Wing got to his paws.
tin sinsimaa mai kukusii wa nita na mai
INST feather-PL 3.m foot+go ABL nest LNK 3.m
Lightly he stepped from his nest.
mai mama karusu wa akanu morunindi orrininanir panaapa susinani koko koko sim papa mai nami nami juranimaais
3.m Momentative look.back ABL see stone+quartz silvery.grey+stripe tail+white ear+black hold.IMPF hold.IMPF LOC.OUT body 3.m NEG.COP.3.sg NEG.COP.3.sg need.IMPF+PERF
He glanced back and saw Slate, Silver Stripe, White Tail and Black Ear clinging to the body he no longer needed.
ne kura kura kura jajarakamaimai mai mipi mipi
1.sg be.doing be.doing be.doing IMPF-gaze/watch-FUT-FUT 3.m whisper whisper
“I will always be watching you,” he whispered.
mai kʷeli nar nar omikamaa naskai nar mee amimi ni sii ekarimiin
3.m turn LAT LAT wildcat-PL star+ADJ LAT DEM.Spec move.aside DAT 3.m go pass-Permissive
He turned towards the starry cats, and they moved aside and let him pass.
amarama nar ka maramaa tu masku mai amata kuki na sin paa na mai na upuri rurrutamaa tu ju kommami tu nuwa
paw+VERB LAT LOC.INN shadow-pl of den 3.m feel pelt LNK 3.pl brush LNK 3.m LNK hear purr+NOM+pl of COM bow+instance.NOM of head
Padding into the shadows of the den, he felt their pelts brush his and heard their welcoming purrs.
mai nawa ju sin awapa ka nar masku wa kuru kukumaa numa sim nar apai tu papana maranamaa kusikiwawan
3.m walk COM 3.pl deep-COMP LOC.INN LAT darkness ABL wall-pl rough open LOC.OUT LAT horizon of IMPF-curve hill-pl be.open+massive
He walked at their side, deeper into the darkness, until the gorse walls opened onto a vast horizon of rolling hills.
sim amara naja wawawan nar imimaa ńi nawamaa tu kita amaimiri kanui asasai asasai sim nar wa mata
LOC.OUT be.remote sun IMPF-rise LAT send.IMPF Metaphorical stream-PL of light dazzling+bright be chaotic IMPF-flow IMPF-flow LOC.OUT LAT ABL earth
In the distance, the sun was rising sending dazzling streams of light spilling over the earth.
ne isiis amari natai tu inuis natai nar nawa mipi aramanaja upurin nar nani animakʷurina
1.sg go-PERF be.far extent.of of love-PERF extent.of LAT yet 1.sg still IMPF-follow path+sun to.head LAT be.new place+hunt
I have traveled so far and loved so much, and yet I am still following the sun trail, heading for new hunting grounds.
Last edited by foxcatdog on Thu Jun 26, 2025 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Please post all the other torches too!
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Re: 2024 Translation Relay
He doesn’t move as the cry of White Tail fades and Black Wing feels the last breath leave his body. The feeling of being well hidden comforts him, releasing the tight feeling in his chest. Taking a deep breath, Black Wing readies his paws. With feathers he walks from his nest. He briefly looks back to see the gray striped body that White Tail won’t be needing anymore. I will keep looking, he whispers. He turns to allow the aliens to pass. In the shadows, he feels their pelts brush against him, and hears a purr from a bowed head. Still deeper into the darkness, the rough walls reveal the horizon, and shadows give way. In the distance, the huge sun sends streams of brilliant, chaotic light cascading over the Earth. I have been traveling far and wide, he says, to follow the path of the sun to this hunting ground.
No mov, domentre s’ieva la crida de Coa Blanca, e Ala Nera sent l’alento finál li lax lo corpo. La senta que yet mout cobréd lo consola, alliberánt la senta etrecha en lo pech. Alentánt profónd, Ala Nera prepara las pates. Ab las plumes vae de lo nio. Corto se gira por ver lo corpo de gris de arllád, que Coa Blanca lo necesitará nunca mais. Susurra que, segueró vent. Se gira por laxár que las allengenes passan. En las ombres, sent que lores peles ecoban lo, e uej una ronronnya deisde cabeza se plegád. Mais lonj en las ombres, paredes aperes muotran l’orisónt, e las ombres se cedan. A lonj, lo sol grand manda aralles de luz lumbrosa de caos, que caen en cascada por sovre de la tera. Diz que, lonj sui etád viachád, por porseguér lo camín de lo sol a ita tera de la cacha.
From Glass Half Baked
No mov, domentre s’ieva la crida de Coa Blanca, e Ala Nera sent l’alento finál li lax lo corpo. La senta que yet mout cobréd lo consola, alliberánt la senta etrecha en lo pech. Alentánt profónd, Ala Nera prepara las pates. Ab las plumes vae de lo nio. Corto se gira por ver lo corpo de gris de arllád, que Coa Blanca lo necesitará nunca mais. Susurra que, segueró vent. Se gira por laxár que las allengenes passan. En las ombres, sent que lores peles ecoban lo, e uej una ronronnya deisde cabeza se plegád. Mais lonj en las ombres, paredes aperes muotran l’orisónt, e las ombres se cedan. A lonj, lo sol grand manda aralles de luz lumbrosa de caos, que caen en cascada por sovre de la tera. Diz que, lonj sui etád viachád, por porseguér lo camín de lo sol a ita tera de la cacha.
From Glass Half Baked
Last edited by foxcatdog on Thu Jun 26, 2025 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
It doesn't move, while the cry of White Tail fades and Black Wing feels the final breath leaving his body. The feeling which is very hidden comforts him, healing the tight feeling in his chest. Breathing deeply, Black Wing prepares its feet. With its feathers it goes from the nest. It briefly turns to see the striped gray body, which White Tail won't need anymore. It's whispered that I will continue like the wind. It turns to let the foreigners pass. In the shadows it feels that their hairs brush it and a purr sounds out of a tilted head. Further in the shadows, coarse walls point out the horizon and the shadows recede. In the distance the sun sends streams of luminous chaotic light, which fall in a waterfall along the top of the land. It's said that I've been a traveller for long, to follow the path of the sun to this land of the hunt.
Nòw ne kùj sowsèj luwluw rò Ćiw Sowśàj mewćej, ròj Ćetà Sownanàw śu nò śù śèjmej śew nì nòw. Śu, nòw pe pùwpòj tò mù nòw pujpe, mù śu śòw śò tì nòw tàj. Rò śù rò powkèw, Ćetà Sownanàw mù rìw mu śowmoj. Nòw sò śìtà mu sew pejtà. Mu me rò ćew koj pù nì pùwsowna soso, Ćiw Sowśàj mòw śèj nòw. Lùnè mew nò nòj sewsew rew nè. Mu me koj rùw nàjpakèw kow rejperew. Śò tèwsoj nòw kow śu nò śì mu sùwne nòw, ròj nùw rurà śew mì tùw. Śò tèw soj kèw tòj pope pokò rinò sèw ròj tèwsoj rew. Śò kèw mè soj rò nenekòw rò nàwnàw. Soj mu tepèj sow pewlà poj rò pa. Lùw nò nòj pe nàjsesej rò so koj sewpìw se rò mè sej pa nò rò ritàw.
From Zju
Nòw ne kùj sowsèj luwluw rò Ćiw Sowśàj mewćej, ròj Ćetà Sownanàw śu nò śù śèjmej śew nì nòw. Śu, nòw pe pùwpòj tò mù nòw pujpe, mù śu śòw śò tì nòw tàj. Rò śù rò powkèw, Ćetà Sownanàw mù rìw mu śowmoj. Nòw sò śìtà mu sew pejtà. Mu me rò ćew koj pù nì pùwsowna soso, Ćiw Sowśàj mòw śèj nòw. Lùnè mew nò nòj sewsew rew nè. Mu me koj rùw nàjpakèw kow rejperew. Śò tèwsoj nòw kow śu nò śì mu sùwne nòw, ròj nùw rurà śew mì tùw. Śò tèw soj kèw tòj pope pokò rinò sèw ròj tèwsoj rew. Śò kèw mè soj rò nenekòw rò nàwnàw. Soj mu tepèj sow pewlà poj rò pa. Lùw nò nòj pe nàjsesej rò so koj sewpìw se rò mè sej pa nò rò ritàw.
From Zju
Last edited by foxcatdog on Thu Jun 26, 2025 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
He doesn't move while the cries of Whitetail are fading: Blackwing feels her final breath departing her body.
The feeling that he's hidden very well comforts him, relaxes the tightening in his chest.
Breathing deeply, Blackwing readies his feet.
With his feathers, he takes off from the nest.
He turns briefly to look at the grey, striped body that Whitetail won't need anymore.
Whispering around: "We will continue into the air."
He turns around to let the foreigners pass along.
In the shadow, they feel their hair brush against him, and let off an angry purr.
In the shadow far away, a coarse wall points towards the horizon and the shadow recedes.
There, the sun is shining chaotically and brightly.
Its light falls like a waterfall upon the land.
One hears: "I have been a traveller a long time, following the path of the sun towards this land of the hunt."
Pok-p'oakk khod dô beub kêu-t'wea og Tet-pheakk p'ey dett dett treop, p'ey og p'ey beod mû thwôa blû.
Pok-p'oakk tokk khod khwatt t'wek meu, pleukk khyet t'wek tug, k'op glât kêu rot.
Ngad mû mû kôa kmeat.
Gwâ k'id dôk nîp tî bleytt.
Upp knêu kêu trid tô gê Tet-pheakk t'wea phea-p'oakk, t'wea nweob, thwôa me-deb t'wêat.
Og gnâ gnâ pneo thwekk bmeyt bleytt bê thwôa.
P'ey upp ngad gô k'op p'eup pneo pyâw pyâw.
Ub Pok-p'oakk gweopp t'wek myea gnâ-dâ, ngad thwekk kêu tnêo.
T'wek k'eo gnâ-dâ, wây t'wea teukk p'ey tep p'lu-myowb a gnâ-dâ.
Ngad khwatt p'lug dô tep trowk gup kêu rot.
K'eo dwaw tatt myowb khwatt goab phaw.
Gnâ p'ey dri bmeyt kyeak kyeak myowb t'weob, bayg pyâw dwaw p'ey gup dakk kneytt mak mak bleytt.
From Vilike
The feeling that he's hidden very well comforts him, relaxes the tightening in his chest.
Breathing deeply, Blackwing readies his feet.
With his feathers, he takes off from the nest.
He turns briefly to look at the grey, striped body that Whitetail won't need anymore.
Whispering around: "We will continue into the air."
He turns around to let the foreigners pass along.
In the shadow, they feel their hair brush against him, and let off an angry purr.
In the shadow far away, a coarse wall points towards the horizon and the shadow recedes.
There, the sun is shining chaotically and brightly.
Its light falls like a waterfall upon the land.
One hears: "I have been a traveller a long time, following the path of the sun towards this land of the hunt."
Pok-p'oakk khod dô beub kêu-t'wea og Tet-pheakk p'ey dett dett treop, p'ey og p'ey beod mû thwôa blû.
Pok-p'oakk tokk khod khwatt t'wek meu, pleukk khyet t'wek tug, k'op glât kêu rot.
Ngad mû mû kôa kmeat.
Gwâ k'id dôk nîp tî bleytt.
Upp knêu kêu trid tô gê Tet-pheakk t'wea phea-p'oakk, t'wea nweob, thwôa me-deb t'wêat.
Og gnâ gnâ pneo thwekk bmeyt bleytt bê thwôa.
P'ey upp ngad gô k'op p'eup pneo pyâw pyâw.
Ub Pok-p'oakk gweopp t'wek myea gnâ-dâ, ngad thwekk kêu tnêo.
T'wek k'eo gnâ-dâ, wây t'wea teukk p'ey tep p'lu-myowb a gnâ-dâ.
Ngad khwatt p'lug dô tep trowk gup kêu rot.
K'eo dwaw tatt myowb khwatt goab phaw.
Gnâ p'ey dri bmeyt kyeak kyeak myowb t'weob, bayg pyâw dwaw p'ey gup dakk kneytt mak mak bleytt.
From Vilike
Last edited by foxcatdog on Thu Jun 26, 2025 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Blackwing carefully remained still as she heard Whitetail’s whines, and its inability to breathe deeply. But Blackwing had to come out of her comfortable hiding-spot with a big sternum. She began to breathe in and out, preparing her talons. She shook her feathers and flew out of the nest.
She briefly turned her head around to look back at Whitetail’s body, grey-striped and now useless. She heard things growling as they flew through the air. Again Blackwing turned, making the others follow. They growled aggressively as they felt her brush under in the night.
Underneath the night, a faint sketch of a line on the horizon began to push away the darkness. It widened irregularly, revealing day. Below, the light covered the land, revealing a waterfall. It is said that it would take a long time to walk the path of those lightbeams flying down to the hunting grounds below.
Kmatrob towniŋmsiŋwandiʼs, msarlisesuŋ Arnim tosarweʼskucuy, msarlisesuŋ tomarwelbuwnesfil. Kmatrob mbigandyemfemaniseʼ feʼ na siwŋuʼsimfas nonwoŋfum, seŋopsam gamwmaraʼr. Sidyamwnesfil, seŋosay siwmandiʼs. Seŋoru siwamunum, siwlesamfeŋwel simayŋgar dyem.
Seŋonur pasiwandun, sArnim sarlsenŋunye, ntowasnoŋ wgiŋ pyaʼpun, antomarwelbupesaʼnapi. Anu ymen, silisesuŋ taŋsarwsinona, taŋsarwlesaŋkomwal. Kmatrob yendunum, dantaŋsituʼn. Taŋsiwsini tosarwnesifkomwal rdob ndon, taŋsarwsinona wranasanninuri.
Tno ni rdob tis foŋ, wranwniseʼ sfeʼlsefeynfas foŋ, sirweʼrob sidyamwsimfaywel. Nir tosidyammomsasa, sarmasnar wrampkeysi. Nampasinsef sis towasnarfas, siwmomsasa feʼasen. Towtosarwlesnaŋken, situʼn nampasinsef na wlenamsanisafas anrwes oŋofeʼ.
From Bradrn
She briefly turned her head around to look back at Whitetail’s body, grey-striped and now useless. She heard things growling as they flew through the air. Again Blackwing turned, making the others follow. They growled aggressively as they felt her brush under in the night.
Underneath the night, a faint sketch of a line on the horizon began to push away the darkness. It widened irregularly, revealing day. Below, the light covered the land, revealing a waterfall. It is said that it would take a long time to walk the path of those lightbeams flying down to the hunting grounds below.
Kmatrob towniŋmsiŋwandiʼs, msarlisesuŋ Arnim tosarweʼskucuy, msarlisesuŋ tomarwelbuwnesfil. Kmatrob mbigandyemfemaniseʼ feʼ na siwŋuʼsimfas nonwoŋfum, seŋopsam gamwmaraʼr. Sidyamwnesfil, seŋosay siwmandiʼs. Seŋoru siwamunum, siwlesamfeŋwel simayŋgar dyem.
Seŋonur pasiwandun, sArnim sarlsenŋunye, ntowasnoŋ wgiŋ pyaʼpun, antomarwelbupesaʼnapi. Anu ymen, silisesuŋ taŋsarwsinona, taŋsarwlesaŋkomwal. Kmatrob yendunum, dantaŋsituʼn. Taŋsiwsini tosarwnesifkomwal rdob ndon, taŋsarwsinona wranasanninuri.
Tno ni rdob tis foŋ, wranwniseʼ sfeʼlsefeynfas foŋ, sirweʼrob sidyamwsimfaywel. Nir tosidyammomsasa, sarmasnar wrampkeysi. Nampasinsef sis towasnarfas, siwmomsasa feʼasen. Towtosarwlesnaŋken, situʼn nampasinsef na wlenamsanisafas anrwes oŋofeʼ.
From Bradrn
Last edited by foxcatdog on Thu Jun 26, 2025 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
Hearing Arnim whimpering, Kmatrob got himself ready. Arnim’s breathing was laboured. Kmatrob tried to make himself invisible in his hiding place, breathing carefully. Taking steady breaths, he unsheathed his sword, adjusted his clothing and ran out of the hut. He looked over his shoulder at young Arnim, who couldn’t yet be any help to him. Hearing people behind them shouting, they kept running on. Kmatrob was weaving around, but they followed suit. They grabbed at him as he slipped through the night, shouting and trying to attack him. A thin line of light showed on the horizon as dawn began to break. The day started to creep in. It is said that he followed the coming light, running off to hunt elsewhere. I don’t know what happened to Arnim.
Cmatros duālesotre gor Ardin doquasilo. Ardin lnumolo epres. Cmatros dolatre o dirgoo tera tnumo alquar. O
duotre ē omis tnūvolo piāvan toneyucilo tualqueuayo. O dālmes aArdin pei dios ārbescu boyela ao coneso guān
dotila. Aa disiesdo tmilin dousgaculo tuolu; aYbatros dicotre orgui o disiesdoutre. aYbatros drosdo dave tuo o cia
acro tovis tiromutre. Cineia ānmona cnes drabetre din egovar tuoltatrė; otie diosovoar. O tisiesco cineia trautrea,
disoyi dove, o duolo cio erovolto tuoela. aArdin tuāyo sa diar guan.
From Darren
Cmatros duālesotre gor Ardin doquasilo. Ardin lnumolo epres. Cmatros dolatre o dirgoo tera tnumo alquar. O
duotre ē omis tnūvolo piāvan toneyucilo tualqueuayo. O dālmes aArdin pei dios ārbescu boyela ao coneso guān
dotila. Aa disiesdo tmilin dousgaculo tuolu; aYbatros dicotre orgui o disiesdoutre. aYbatros drosdo dave tuo o cia
acro tovis tiromutre. Cineia ānmona cnes drabetre din egovar tuoltatrė; otie diosovoar. O tisiesco cineia trautrea,
disoyi dove, o duolo cio erovolto tuoela. aArdin tuāyo sa diar guan.
From Darren
Last edited by foxcatdog on Thu Jun 26, 2025 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
…could you perhaps edit in the original con-texts too?
EDIT: thank you!
EDIT: thank you!
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
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Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Re: 2024 Translation Relay
I have time to do a proper comparison now — and in fact do some more detailed analysis too, since that document preserves a first draft of my translation too. There’s some interesting points…
- Pok-p'oakk
- wing-black
- khod
- CUR
- dô
- NEG
- beub
- move
- kêu-t'wea
- while
- og
- hear
- Tet-pheakk
- tail-white
- p'ey
- 3SG
- dett
- ITP
- dett
- ITP
- treop,
- whine,
- p'ey
- 3SG
- og
- hear
- p'ey
- 3SG
- beod
- not.able
- mû
- breathe
- thwôa
- bottomless
He doesn't move while the cries of Whitetail are fading: Blackwing feels her final breath departing her body.
*Blackwing carefully remained still as she heard Whitetail’s whines, and its inability to breathe deeply.
- I misunderstood this first line quite badly, with side-effects throughout the rest of my translation. At least I recognised the fact — my initial translation had ‘(?)’ at the end.
- The ultimate problem seems to be that I wrongly glossed thwôa as ‘bottomless’. I’m not quite sure why I did that — the dictionary and grammar both clearly state that it means dehors, hors de ‘outside’. On the other hand, thwôa blû is defined as sans fond ‘bottomless‘… perhaps I just got confused.
- The switch-reference is also confusing (though I did get it right): the two different p'eys after the comma refer to two different referents. In Eŋes it becomes:
- ∅-m-sar-lisesuŋ
- 3s-BG-PROG-hear
- to-ma-rwelbu-wnesfil
- 4s-NEG-can-breathe.deep
…where Blackwing (the topic) is 3s and Whitetail (the newer referent) is 4s. - But even recognising these things, I can’t quite see how it corresponds to Vilike’s English translation. I would now translate it as something like, ‘Blackwing heard Whitetail’s inability to breathe outside’. This is closer, but I can’t see where ‘final breath’ comes from. If I were to translate the English directly into Eŋes, it would probably be something like:
- Kmat-rob
- wing-black
- to-wa·ndiʼs
- 4s-AUX·still
- ∅-sar-lisesuŋ
- 3s-PROG-hear
- Ar-nim
- tail-white
- to-sar-diʼs-weʼskucuy-kroŋkrom:
- 4s-PROG-finish-whine-weakly:
- to-si-wel-wnesfil-feŋ,
- 4s-PFV-go-breathe.deep-exit,
- ∅-lisensuŋ-i.
- 3s-attend-3s
- The genders, incidentally, I also got wrong. Unsurprisingly: there’s no clue in the text as to what they should be! I think my reasoning was that Blackwing seems to be looking after a younger bird(?) in the nest, which sort of suggested the female gender to me. That said, this fixes itself in the Eŋes, which like Dri Mreatt has no gender marking anywhere.
- Pok-p'oakk
- wing-black
- tokk
- SUPP
- khod
- CUR
- khwatt
- reveal
- t'wek meu,
- hidden,
- pleukk
- PASS
- khyet t'wek tug,
- content,
- k'op
- get
- glât
- breastbone
- kêu rot.
- large
The feeling that he's hidden very well comforts him, relaxes the tightening in his chest.
*But Blackwing had to come out of her comfortable hiding-spot with a big sternum.
- This line I also badly misinterpreted. Interestingly, my first, more literal, translation was somewhat less wrong: Blackwing thought to concentrate on revealing herself from hiding, being content, getting a big breastbone.
- My basic error here was in thinking that this is about Blackwing revealing herself from hiding, rather than being hidden. Which… doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me, actually? The dictionary translates khwatt as ouvrir un object sans ouverture; découvrir, révéler ‘open an object without an opening; discover, reveal’, which seems pretty unambiguous.
- The word glât badly confused me. The dictionary has sternum, os central du thorax ‘sternum, central bone of the thorax’. I didn’t know which bone the ‘sternum’ was, so I looked it up, and apparently birds use it for flight. So, ‘sternum’ it became!
- […]
- […]
- thwôa me-deb
- useless
- t'wêat
- now
[… that Whitetail] won’t need anymore.
*[…] and now useless.
- Skipping ahead a bit, I actually got this one basically right. But without the context that Whitetail is, alas, dead, I couldn’t possibly have translated it correctly.
- Og
- Hear
- gnâ gnâ
- some
- pneo
- 3PL
- thwekk
- growl
- bmeyt
- PROG
- bleytt
- fly
- bê
- between
- thwôa.
- air
Whispering around: "We will continue into the air."
*She heard some things growling, flying through the air.
- Something very, very weird happened with this sentence. Simply by matching up sentences, I’m forced to conclude that in Vilike’s English translation it corresponds to the sentence given here. But I translated it completely differently! The bizarre thing is that in my translation, it still makes sense in context — only that context is the next sentence (the one about the ‘foreigners’), not the previous one, and the referents become completely different.
- The culprit seems to be the word thwekk, translated in the dictionary as gronder, grogner; murmurer ‘to growl, grunt; to whisper’. I took the first subentry, but should have taken the second.
- Also confusing is the use of gnâ gnâ quelques-uns ‘some’. Here, it could be the object of og ‘hear’ or the subject of thwekk ‘whisper’; but in Vilike’s translation, it seems to be the subject of bleytt ‘fly’.
- T'wek
- under
- k'eo
- DIST.below
- gnâ-dâ,
- night,
- wây
- line
- t'wea teukk
- undetailed
- p'ey
- 3SG
- tep
- be.on
- p'lu-myowb
- horizon
- a
- push
- gnâ-dâ.
- night
In the shadow far away, a coarse wall points towards the horizon and the shadow recedes.
*Underneath the night, a faint sketch of a line on the horizon began to push away the darkness.
- This line was very confusing. Curiously enough, my initial translation was more accurate: Underneath the night, a coarse line on the horizon started to push away the night. The final translation was my attempt to make sense of what that could possibly mean — I eventually interpreted it as a poetic reference to daybreak on the horizon. But it confused me sufficiently that I actually asked a French speaker of my acquaintance for the meaning of grossier (given as a dictionary meaning of t'wea teukk).
- Gnâ
- one
- p'ey
- 3SG
- dri
- say
- bmeyt
- PROG
- kyeak
- walk
- kyeak
- walk
- myowb t'weob,
- long.time,
- bayg
- PRF
- pyâw
- follow
- dwaw
- light
- p'ey
- 3SG
- gup
- come
- dakk
- descend
- kneytt
- OBV.below.PL
- mak mak
- hunting.ground
- bleytt.
- fly
One hears: "I have been a traveller a long time, following the path of the sun towards this land of the hunt."
*It is said that it would take a long time to walk the path of those lightbeams flying down to the hunting grounds below.
- I’ve mentioned other sentences as being confusing, but this one takes the cake. I’m somewhat gratified to see that the original sentence in foxcatdog’s text was almost equally incomprehensible.
- Interestingly, my first draft translation was once again more accurate: Someone says that s/he was walking for a long time, s/he followed the light which comes down to the hunting grounds below. I’m pretty surprised at how close this was to Vilike’s translation!
- It’s worth looking at the Eŋes:
- tow-to-sar-wlesnaŋ-ken,
- IND-4s-PROG-walk-late,
- si-tuʼn
- PFV-follow
- nampasinsef
- light
- na
- REL
- wlenam-san-isa-fas
- fly-down-come-LOC
- anrwes
- hunting
- oŋo-feʼ
- 3s-place
The original ‘one hears’ bit got translated as the indirect evidential tow-. I also got the coreference wrong — the relative clause here implies that it’s the light which is flying down. Having seen Vilike’s translation, I would now translate it as something like […] situʼn nampasinsef sarwlenamwalisafas […], with all verbs having the same subject, and progressive aspect and andative motion on the last one. (Although with changes in Eŋes since I made the torch, that last verb complex would now actually be sarwalenmastanfas.)
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
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Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)