United States Politics Thread 47

[zompist]

No, opposition to vaccines has broad popular support, especially among the right.

Wrong. The percentage of Americans who believe vaccines for childhood illnesses are safe is 91%. Among Republicans it's 88%. Among MAGAheads it's 84%. A landslide of Republicans (68%) support requiring these vaccines in schools. (The discrepancy is because many people think it should be the parents' choice, not because they don't trust the vaccines.)

There is more skepticism about the Covid vaccine, but still majority support for it.

Kennedy's anti-science stance is a disaster, of course, and will kill people. You can say that instead of making up false statistics.

everyone who voted for Trump =/= Trump supporter

also, anti-vaccine =/= anti-medicine & everything else RFKJr is up to.

First, here's a ≠ you can cut and paste.

Looking at schisms in the Republican clownshow is good practice, but also shouldn't be exaggerated. As of June 5, just 14% of Republicans disapprove of Kennedy's job performance. When even an outlier like Susan Collins voted to approve Kennedy, this is not the issue that moderate Republicans are going to rebel over.

[malloc]

Looking at schisms in the Republican clownshow is good practice, but also shouldn't be exaggerated. As of June 5, just 14% of Republicans disapprove of Kennedy's job performance. When even an outlier like Susan Collins voted to approve Kennedy, this is not the issue that moderate Republicans are going to rebel over.

If the vast majority of Republicans approve of Kennedy's job performance then their nominal acceptance of vaccines means nothing. Perhaps you are technically correct to claim that most Republicans accept vaccines but that has little bearing on their concrete political decisions. You are simply proving my point, that the disastrous policies of the current administration and its allies in local governments don't really bother rank-and-file Republicans enough to provoke any backlash.

[zompist]

Looking at schisms in the Republican clownshow is good practice, but also shouldn't be exaggerated. As of June 5, just 14% of Republicans disapprove of Kennedy's job performance. When even an outlier like Susan Collins voted to approve Kennedy, this is not the issue that moderate Republicans are going to rebel over.

If the vast majority of Republicans approve of Kennedy's job performance then their nominal acceptance of vaccines means nothing. Perhaps you are technically correct to claim that most Republicans accept vaccines but that has little bearing on their concrete political decisions. You are simply proving my point, that the disastrous policies of the current administration and its allies in local governments don't really bother rank-and-file Republicans enough to provoke any backlash.

You're moving the goalposts. What you wrote was "opposition to vaccines has broad popular support, especially among the right." This is absolutely the opposite of the truth.

There are things you could point out that are alarming and true, so why lie?

[malloc]

You're moving the goalposts. What you wrote was "opposition to vaccines has broad popular support, especially among the right." This is absolutely the opposite of the truth.

There are things you could point out that are alarming and true, so why lie?

Fine, I was technically wrong, an honest mistake given the fervor and influence of the anti-vaccination movement rather than lying as you would have it. Nonetheless my basic point remains: many Republicans are seriously untethered from reality and even the more grounded ones don't consider nonsense like anti-vaccination a deal breaker. Keenir would have us believe that Abbot spending all his time on redistricting will hurt his popularity enough to dissuade him from pursuing it any further but I simply don't see the evidence for that.

[keenir]

You're moving the goalposts. What you wrote was "opposition to vaccines has broad popular support, especially among the right." This is absolutely the opposite of the truth.

There are things you could point out that are alarming and true, so why lie?

Fine, I was technically wrong, an honest mistake
given the fervor and influence of the anti-vaccination movement rather than lying as you would have it.

my sister used to have a saying: if you're sorry, why do you keep doing it?

Nonetheless my basic point remains:

that we need to act like Chicken Little?

many Republicans are seriously untethered from reality and even the more grounded ones don't consider nonsense like anti-vaccination a deal breaker.

yes they do; look again at the %s that Zompist just cited.

Keenir would have us believe that Abbot spending all his time on redistricting will hurt his popularity enough to dissuade him from pursuing it any further

it doesn't have to hurt his popularity; someone can be popular and still not get reelected.

but I simply don't see the evidence for that.

I can't see evidence for the existance of grass if I never look outside. So it is for you: you don't see evidence you don't even try to look for.

[keenir]

First, here's a ≠ you can cut and paste.

thank you!

[malloc]

yes they do; look again at the %s that Zompist just cited.

The one where he said only 14% of Republicans disapprove of how RFK is handling his position? That sure sounds like most Republicans, regardless of their own views on vaccines, not regarding anti-vaccination as a deal breaker to me.

[keenir]

yes they do; look again at the %s that Zompist just cited.

The one where he said only 14% of Republicans disapprove of how RFK is handling his position? That sure sounds like most Republicans, regardless of their own views on vaccines, not regarding anti-vaccination as a deal breaker to me.

*sigh*
You know that the % is out of 100%, right? Right? Not 14/15 or 14/20. If that was the percentage, then yes, I'd join you in panicking while we worked to undo that horrible state.
(though I feel like I'd be the Little Red Hen in that situation)

Also, if my objection to something is that I want me (and parents) to have the right to decide about when to get a vaccine for themselves and for their children, then it makes 0000000 sense to deny all parents the opportunity to get a vaccine for themselves and for their children.

[Ketsuban]

You know that the % is out of 100%, right? Right? Not 14/15 or 14/20. If that was the percentage, then yes, I'd join you in panicking while we worked to undo that horrible state.

Reading comprehension!

yes they do; look again at the %s that Zompist just cited.

The one where he said only 14% of Republicans disapprove of how RFK is handling his position? That sure sounds like most Republicans, regardless of their own views on vaccines, not regarding anti-vaccination as a deal breaker to me.

[keenir]

You know that the % is out of 100%, right? Right? Not 14/15 or 14/20. If that was the percentage, then yes, I'd join you in panicking while we worked to undo that horrible state.

Reading comprehension!

yes they do; look again at the %s that Zompist just cited.

The one where he said only 14% of Republicans disapprove of how RFK is handling his position? That sure sounds like most Republicans, regardless of their own views on vaccines, not regarding anti-vaccination as a deal breaker to me.

I wonder if the pollster in question, divided "do you disapprove or approve of how he is handling/settling into his position?" from "do you approve or disapprove of what he is doing in terms of appointments and cheerleading?"

[malloc]

I agree. I personally don't dislike Eddy's politics ─ but I am put off by his constant "all hope is lost, Trump is invincible" hopelessness and defeatism when, in fact, all hope is not lost and Trump is not invincible, and declaring that Trump has already won and nothing can be done only helps Trump. And as Eddy seems to be very liable to falling into catastrophizing in general (and not just with regard to Trump), this to me seems to be a mental health issue that could definitely be helped to Eddy's benefit.

Realistically though, Trump has numerous overwhelming advantages. His followers control all three branches of government and half the state governments. News media are falling over themselves to give him favorable coverage. Most social media influencers have thrown their support behind Trump and various reactionary movements like the manosphere. It seems unclear how liberals and leftists intend to overcome any of these massive obstacles at this point. We have taken an important first step by recognizing the incredible influence of people like Joe Rogan but the real challenge is getting left wing influencers who can compete with them on equal footing and it seems unclear how to achieve that.

[Travis B.]

I agree. I personally don't dislike Eddy's politics ─ but I am put off by his constant "all hope is lost, Trump is invincible" hopelessness and defeatism when, in fact, all hope is not lost and Trump is not invincible, and declaring that Trump has already won and nothing can be done only helps Trump. And as Eddy seems to be very liable to falling into catastrophizing in general (and not just with regard to Trump), this to me seems to be a mental health issue that could definitely be helped to Eddy's benefit.

Realistically though, Trump has numerous overwhelming advantages. His followers control all three branches of government and half the state governments. News media are falling over themselves to give him favorable coverage. Most social media influencers have thrown their support behind Trump and various reactionary movements like the manosphere. It seems unclear how liberals and leftists intend to overcome any of these massive obstacles at this point. We have taken an important first step by recognizing the incredible influence of people like Joe Rogan but the real challenge is getting left wing influencers who can compete with them on equal footing and it seems unclear how to achieve that.

Do you realize how little of a margin Trump won the election, and how MAGA tends to not win when Trump isn't on the ballot? You also overlook the fact that the very reason why Trump won was due to fickle voters being angry about things like the price of eggs, who will not help MAGA in the midterms when they realize eggs are no cheaper. You also seem to be blind to the large amount of media coverage which is not favorable to Trump. You also seem to overstate the influence of right-wing social media "influencers" (oh, I hate that damn word). You seem to also be blind to the fact of how bad Trump's polls are (and this early into his term, where polls in general tend to be better for the sitting president), and the fact that the midterms are practically always a vote of confidence (or no confidence) on the current president (and MAGA will not helped by the fact that Trump isn't actually running in the midterms for obvious reasons) means that MAGA will most likely be hurt in the midterms.

Seriously, you overstate every advantage Trump and MAGA have while completely ignoring the many ways in which they do not have a real advantage.

[alice]

malloc sees the T, but not the rump.

[malloc]

Laugh all you like, but I hear that the Texas Democrats are planning on returning home and surrendering on the gerrymandering issue. While the ink has not exactly dried on this issue, it looks like I was right all along.

[Travis B.]

Laugh all you like, but I hear that the Texas Democrats are planning on returning home and surrendering on the gerrymandering issue. While the ink has not exactly dried on this issue, it looks like I was right all along.

Umm they ended the special session, which is the whole reason the Texas Democrats left. If they start a new one, they will leave again.

[malloc]

An alarming essay on the overwhelming difficulty of removing fascists from power. Not sure about you, but I am simply too old to wait thirty to fifty years for things to get better.

[Travis B.]

An alarming essay on the overwhelming difficulty of removing fascists from power. Not sure about you, but I am simply too old to wait thirty to fifty years for things to get better.

That is one essay on Medium of all places, and frankly, do something about it rather than just whining about how all is lost. You could be out there amongst those demonstrating, but no, you're just complaining on the Internet about how nothing can be done.

[Raphael]

So we're back from worrying about Trump blowing up the world to worrying about Trump handing Europe to Putin on a silver platter. Great.

[naz]

o

[zompist]

So we're back from worrying about Trump blowing up the world to worrying about Trump handing Europe to Putin on a silver platter. Great.

Russia has not been able to conquer a country 1/4 its size in three years. Compare some figures, EU-plus-UK vs. Russia:

Population: 518 million vs. 146 million
GDP: 24 trillion vs. 1.5 trillion
Army: 1.5 million vs. 1.1 million... add about another million for Ukraine; also note at least 600,000 Russians are tied up there
Military budget: $445 billion (2% of GDP) vs. $129 billion (6% of GDP)

It's never quite this simple-- you could certainly say that the EU is not ready for a major war. But neither is Russia. Russia has lost about 6000 armored vehicles including tanks, 250,000 soldiers killed. In the last year and a half Russia has occupied 1% of Ukraine's territory.

And for what it's worth, though Trump handed Putin some nice photo ops, he didn't reach any kind of deal. He's been terrible on Ukraine, but the worst case would be that he tried to impose some sort of surrender on Ukraine, and he didn't.