United States Politics Thread 47

[malloc]

Charlie Kirk confirmed dead. You can call me pessimistic all you like, but this seems like rocket fuel for the Trump regime. The genera public will see this on the news and come away with the conclusion that MAGA is right about leftists being dangerous terrorists. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump sees his approval rating soar.

[zompist]

Charlie Kirk confirmed dead. You can call me pessimistic all you like, but this seems like rocket fuel for the Trump regime.

More Trump propaganda from the Missouri office. I hope they give you a raise.

malloc, go look at polls for 2024. E.g this graph. Without looking up the date, can you tell when the attempted shooting of Trump occured?

[WeepingElf]

Charlie Kirk confirmed dead. You can call me pessimistic all you like, but this seems like rocket fuel for the Trump regime.

malloc, defeatism helps the enemy - by telling people that their cause is lost, you demotivate them from fighting for their cause even if the cause is yours. We need more people who believe that something can be done, not more people who believe that it is too late. If you think all is lost, just bleep yourself and spare us of your pessimism.

[malloc]

malloc, defeatism helps the enemy - by telling people that their cause is lost, you demotivate them from fighting for their cause even if the cause is yours. We need more people who believe that something can be done, not more people who believe that it is too late. If you think all is lost, just bleep yourself and spare us of your pessimism.

You must admit at the very least that this represents an incredible propaganda coup for MAGA, something they can wave at the average person to convince them at the left is dangerous.

[Travis B.]

malloc, defeatism helps the enemy - by telling people that their cause is lost, you demotivate them from fighting for their cause even if the cause is yours. We need more people who believe that something can be done, not more people who believe that it is too late. If you think all is lost, just bleep yourself and spare us of your pessimism.

You must admit at the very least that this represents an incredible propaganda coup for MAGA, something they can wave at the average person to convince them at the left is dangerous.

You're the only person saying this ─ I haven't seen anyone else supporting how this is somehow an "incredible propaganda coup".

[Ketsuban]

You must admit

I'm not sure I've seen a single time where you said these three words and weren't just asking people to accept your premise without question.

[keenir]

The genera public will see this on the news and come away with the conclusion that MAGA is right about leftists being dangerous terrorists.

Malloc, the last time somebody did a terrorist action aimed at right-wingers...it was a right-winger who was trying to send Trump a message about Musk.

(it was blowing up a tesla at a trump tower)

[Ares Land]

malloc, defeatism helps the enemy - by telling people that their cause is lost, you demotivate them from fighting for their cause even if the cause is yours. We need more people who believe that something can be done, not more people who believe that it is too late. If you think all is lost, just bleep yourself and spare us of your pessimism.

You must admit at the very least that this represents an incredible propaganda coup for MAGA, something they can wave at the average person to convince them at the left is dangerous.

I'd say it's not very likely. The people who'd be likely to be swayed by such an event are all already convinced, and voting for Trump. It's not going to influence support for him much.

[CopyrightedName]

The general public will see this on the news and come away with the conclusion that MAGA is right about leftists being dangerous terrorists. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump sees his approval rating soar.

Knowing you're surrounded by rabid Trumpists makes it a little easier to see why you'd think this, but no, the general public will not instantly believe that all left-wingers are terrorists. The overwhelming response to the shooting has been worried talk about political violence in general, and Dems have generally responded with A. condemnation of the violence or B. condemnation of the violence and also pointing out that Trump and MAGA's violent rhetoric has helped to give rise to violence like this. Plus, we don't even know that the shooter was left-wing (the Trump assassin was a right-winger, remember), which people are already pointing out.

The larger concern is not that the shooting will swing public opinion, but that the incident will give MAGA and/or the Trump administration the excuse to indulge their frothing violent fantasies regardless of public opinion.

[malloc]

You must look at this from the perspective of average people who don't follow politics very closely. All they see is someone on the left murdering a conservative commentator. Currently the news of his assassination is saturating every news outlet. Everyone in the US and even many people abroad have heard the news and you would be naïve to imagine it doesn't color their impression of the left (which these days includes anyone to the left of MAGA).

[bradrn]

You must look at this from the perspective of average people who don't follow politics very closely. All they see is someone on the left murdering a conservative commentator. Currently the news of his assassination is saturating every news outlet. Everyone in the US and even many people abroad have heard the news and you would be naïve to imagine it doesn't color their impression of the left (which these days includes anyone to the left of MAGA).

I think you greatly overestimate the political engagement of the average person. (See also: xkcd 2051.)

[keenir]

You must look at this from the perspective of average people who don't follow politics very closely.

we must?

and if they don't follow politics closely, why do they suddenly care about the politics of the shooter or shootee?

All they see is someone on the left murdering a conservative commentator.

and how do you know it was someone on the Left?


Was it you?

and you would be naïve to imagine it doesn't color their impression of the left (which these days includes anyone to the left of MAGA).

and who is it whose definition of "the Left" is all people to the left of MAGA??

is it yours?

[malloc]

we must?

and if they don't follow politics closely, why do they suddenly care about the politics of the shooter or shootee?

They understand the basic notion of left versus right and they certainly worry about terrorism. Right now the media is burning the horror of this assassination into the mind of everyone with television or an internet connection. Even if you know nothing else about politics, you have heard hundreds of times that someone on the left has murdered a conservative commentator in cold blood.

[keenir]

we must?

and if they don't follow politics closely, why do they suddenly care about the politics of the shooter or shootee?

They understand the basic notion of left versus right

given you think they view everyone left of maga as being part of The Left, I don't think they do - at least not as you think they do.

and they certainly worry about terrorism.

are these the same "don't care about politics" people who are sitting idly by while Gaza is being 'evacuated', or the people chanting "Free DC, Free Palestine, Trump is the Hitler of our time" ?

Right now the media is burning the horror of this assassination into the mind of everyone with television or an internet connection.

that is true. and they do that every time there is any shooting anywhere in the USA. and nothing happens.

Even if you know nothing else about politics, you have heard hundreds of times that someone on the left has murdered a conservative commentator in cold blood.

nope, none of the media outlets I have access to (and i have access to pretty much everyone on youtube) has said it was someone on the left.

[alice]

For once malloc is right. Even from thousands of miles away the horror of this senseless act of obviously leftist political violence has shaken me to the core of my soul and made it clear that the only moral course of action is to regard Trump and the MAGA movement with total sympathy and wholeheartedly support them however we can in everything they do.

That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.

[keenir]

all images with traffic lights

wait, is that the reason the Zen master said that "if you meet the Buddha in the road, kill him" ?

[malloc]

For once malloc is right. Even from thousands of miles away the horror of this senseless act of obviously leftist political violence has shaken me to the core of my soul and made it clear that the only moral course of action is to regard Trump and the MAGA movement with total sympathy and wholeheartedly support them however we can in everything they do.

Laugh all you like, but that is not far from how most people understand politics. After the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the vast majority of Americans were baying for war with any predominantly Islamic country that one could tangentally link with the attacks while rallying decisively toward the hard right. It took a good five years for Americans to calm down enough for Democrats to become politically viable again. Five years from now, the MAGA regime will be too deeply entrenched to remove even if public opinion turns against it.

[Travis B.]

For once malloc is right. Even from thousands of miles away the horror of this senseless act of obviously leftist political violence has shaken me to the core of my soul and made it clear that the only moral course of action is to regard Trump and the MAGA movement with total sympathy and wholeheartedly support them however we can in everything they do.

Laugh all you like, but that is not far from how most people understand politics. After the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the vast majority of Americans were baying for war with any predominantly Islamic country that one could tangentally link with the attacks while rallying decisively toward the hard right. It took a good five years for Americans to calm down enough for Democrats to become politically viable again. Five years from now, the MAGA regime will be too deeply entrenched to remove even if public opinion turns against it.

This is the assassination of one far right-wing influencer that most people have never even heard of. It is not going to make most people suddenly support MAGA any more than they do or don't already.

[Torco]

Five years from now, the MAGA regime will be too deeply entrenched to remove even if public opinion turns against it.

I mean... it is possible (though not super likely) that by 2030 the magas manage to get such a hold on power that they can't be ousted, through a military takeover, various processes of corruption of elections like gerrymandering, democrat collaboration, judicial capture or whatever else... but it won't be cause some mid-tier conservative pundit got publicly shot. Travis is right, kirk wasn't so famous that his death moves the needle that much, or for that long. If, say, musk bought the farm, now that could be something else (though then again, maybe not even)

I think more consequential, and this really sounds like the kind of thing that turns out to be fake so my question here is not rhetorical but sincere: I hear that orange man had a stroke or something?

[keenir]

For once malloc is right. Even from thousands of miles away the horror of this senseless act of obviously leftist political violence has shaken me to the core of my soul and made it clear that the only moral course of action is to regard Trump and the MAGA movement with total sympathy and wholeheartedly support them however we can in everything they do.

Laugh all you like, but that is not far from how most people understand politics.

and by "most people", you mean yourself?

After the 9/11 terrorist attacks,

look, I don't like to quote Stalin, because this is yet another time he got it pretty much backwards...but do you know the difference in deathtoll between 9/11 and the Kirk shooting?

while rallying decisively toward the hard right.

I know you're not going to bother, but could you provide a source or reference for that "while rallying decisively toward the hard right" ?

I mean, from what I recall, not even the Tea Party made gains from 9/11.

Five years from now, the MAGA regime will be too deeply entrenched to remove even if public opinion turns against it.

you're just counting the hours, aren't you?

cause some mid-tier conservative pundit got publicly shot. Travis is right, kirk wasn't so famous that his death moves the needle that much, or for that long. If, say, musk bought the farm, now that could be something else

maybe if it happened while he was sharing the spotlight with Trump or right afterwards (and again, I'd put money on a right-winger doing the deed)

I think more consequential, and this really sounds like the kind of thing that turns out to be fake so my question here is not rhetorical but sincere: I hear that orange man had a stroke or something?

I don't know about Boehner(sp), but Trump did disappear over the weekend, long enough for people to think he had died (20 minutes without an attack on California's governor, as John Stewart put it).....now everyone is looking at Trump's hand, as though that proves or disproves it, based upon how much concealer makeup he put over any veins or discolor on the back of one hand.