Linguistic Miscellany Thread

[Richard W]

As mentioned there is also an alternate OE form cyrice which this may have been borrowed from. But whence cyrice if cirice came from PWGmc *kirikā?

I suspect there is a minor sound change, possibly only a tendency, i, e > y in the environment /c_rC/. (The <i> before <c> of cyrice and cirice was optional.) The change also occurs in the noun cyrin 'churn'. Vowel breaking appends /u/ to the vowel, and /c/ may have had a tendency to labialisation, as seen in Modern English /ʃ/. It's possible that churl has a similar history, though I think a spelling with <y> is not attested.

[Travis B.]

As mentioned there is also an alternate OE form cyrice which this may have been borrowed from. But whence cyrice if cirice came from PWGmc *kirikā?

I suspect there is a minor sound change, possibly only a tendency, i, e > y in the environment /c_rC/. (The <i> before <c> of cyrice and cirice was optional.) The change also occurs in the noun cyrin 'churn'. Vowel breaking appends /u/ to the vowel, and /c/ may have had a tendency to labialisation, as seen in Modern English /ʃ/. It's possible that churl has a similar history, though I think a spelling with <y> is not attested.

That sounds more plausible than OE-speakers spelling-pronouncing cirice based on the spelling of the word in Byzantine Greek.

[Glass Half Baked]

I stumbled across a site with recordings of the Mangareva language, a rare treat. But they're not playing for me. Can other people hear these recordings?

https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/c ... 7765caf815

[jal]

I stumbled across a site with recordings of the Mangareva language, a rare treat. But they're not playing for me. Can other people hear these recordings?
https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/c ... 7765caf815

Nope. The underlying URL gives an error.


JAL

[bradrn]

Today at the hardware store the man at the counter suggested that I buy a [dɾɐːw]. I expressed confusion, so he clarified that what he thought I should buy was a [dɾɐːw]. Eventually I just asked him to spell it out, and it clicked — the word he was saying was drill!

[Darren]

Today at the hardware store the man at the counter suggested that I buy a [dɾɐːw]. I expressed confusion, so he clarified that what he thought I should buy was a [dɾɐːw]. Eventually I just asked him to spell it out, and it clicked — the word he was saying was drill!

Sounds like a Kiwi to me, although I reckon the fush-and-chups shift is making its way into Australia too.

[Travis B.]

Today at the hardware store the man at the counter suggested that I buy a [dɾɐːw]. I expressed confusion, so he clarified that what he thought I should buy was a [dɾɐːw]. Eventually I just asked him to spell it out, and it clicked — the word he was saying was drill!

Sounds like a Kiwi to me, although I reckon the fush-and-chups shift is making its way into Australia too.

Remember that bradrn is now in Scotland, and you know how Scots (or at least varieties on the continuum between Scottish English and braid Scots) is...

[bradrn]

I reckon the fush-and-chups shift is making its way into Australia too.

Really?

[Darren]

Remember that bradrn is now in Scotland, and you know how Scots (or at least varieties on the continuum between Scottish English and braid Scots) is...

Ah of course, in that case brad's forgiven for not understanding.

I reckon the fush-and-chups shift is making its way into Australia too.

Really?

Yeah. I occasionally do hear a schwa-like realisation of KIT in regular AusEng speech, and even of NEAR before /l/

[bradrn]

I reckon the fush-and-chups shift is making its way into Australia too.

Really?

Yeah. I occasionally do hear a schwa-like realisation of KIT in regular AusEng speech, and even of NEAR before /l/

On reflection I’m pretty sure I do realise it as centralised at times, so I guess that’s understandable.

That said, what I heard sounded distinctively lower than schwa. And it’s not the first time I’ve heard that realisation over here!

[Travis B.]

Really?

Yeah. I occasionally do hear a schwa-like realisation of KIT in regular AusEng speech, and even of NEAR before /l/

On reflection I’m pretty sure I do realise it as centralised at times, so I guess that’s understandable.

I thought AusE KIT was rather tense, approaching [i] even.

[abahot]

Today at the hardware store the man at the counter suggested that I buy a [dɾɐːw]. I expressed confusion, so he clarified that what he thought I should buy was a [dɾɐːw]. Eventually I just asked him to spell it out, and it clicked — the word he was saying was drill!

Sounds like a Kiwi to me, although I reckon the fush-and-chups shift is making its way into Australia too.

I thought the thing in Australia was feesh-and-cheeps? Is the shift reversing direction?

[bradrn]

Yeah. I occasionally do hear a schwa-like realisation of KIT in regular AusEng speech, and even of NEAR before /l/

On reflection I’m pretty sure I do realise it as centralised at times, so I guess that’s understandable.

I thought AusE KIT was rather tense, approaching [i] even.

Could be, but I don’t really speak AusEng.

[Travis B.]

On reflection I’m pretty sure I do realise it as centralised at times, so I guess that’s understandable.

I thought AusE KIT was rather tense, approaching [i] even.

Could be, but I don’t really speak AusEng.

The Wiki says that AusE KIT is relatively tense.

[anteallach]

On reflection I’m pretty sure I do realise it as centralised at times, so I guess that’s understandable.

I thought AusE KIT was rather tense, approaching [i] even.

Could be, but I don’t really speak AusEng.

South African English supposedly has an allophonic split where it is centralised New Zealand style in most contexts but after certain consonants it remains higher and fronter.

Weirdly I never seem to notice any of this; my NZ shibboleth is the DRESS vowel, not KIT. Perhaps my own background has got me used to a wide range of realisations of KIT.

[Travis B.]

I thought AusE KIT was rather tense, approaching [i] even.

Could be, but I don’t really speak AusEng.

South African English supposedly has an allophonic split where it is centralised New Zealand style in most contexts but after certain consonants it remains higher and fronter.

Weirdly I never seem to notice any of this; my NZ shibboleth is the DRESS vowel, not KIT. Perhaps my own background has got me used to a wide range of realisations of KIT.

The biggest thing I myself notice about NZE is the DRESS vowel, not the KIT vowel, as well. Of course, my native KIT is rather centralized, and gets lowered some in unstressed syllables.

[Darren]

Today at the hardware store the man at the counter suggested that I buy a [dɾɐːw]. I expressed confusion, so he clarified that what he thought I should buy was a [dɾɐːw]. Eventually I just asked him to spell it out, and it clicked — the word he was saying was drill!

Sounds like a Kiwi to me, although I reckon the fush-and-chups shift is making its way into Australia too.

I thought the thing in Australia was feesh-and-cheeps? Is the shift reversing direction?

It's not reversing direction, it's a continuation of the shift. Stage one is /æ ɛ ɪ/ > /æ e i/ (AusEng); then in New Zealand /æ/ raises to /ɛ/, bumping /e/ up to /ɪ/ and knocking /i/ around to /ə/. Basically once KIT has run out of vowel space to raise, it centralises instead.

[Travis B.]

Sounds like a Kiwi to me, although I reckon the fush-and-chups shift is making its way into Australia too.

I thought the thing in Australia was feesh-and-cheeps? Is the shift reversing direction?

It's not reversing direction, it's a continuation of the shift. Stage one is /æ ɛ ɪ/ > /æ e i/ (AusEng); then in New Zealand /æ/ raises to /ɛ/, bumping /e/ up to /ɪ/ and knocking /i/ around to /ə/. Basically once KIT has run out of vowel space to raise, it centralises instead.

Raising /æ/ (with centralizing /ɑ/) centralized /ɛ/ instead here in the Inland North, and /ɪ/ was pulled along for the ride regardless.

[WeepingElf]

And now for something completely different: Apparently, the long mysterious Linear Elamite script has been deciphered recently.

[bradrn]

And now for something completely different: Apparently, the long mysterious Linear Elamite script has been deciphered recently.

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this already, though not as a published paper.