Longer words for pronouns.

Natural languages and linguistics
akam chinjir
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by akam chinjir »

anxi wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:01 am How would “I asked Charlie but the guy wouldn't help out” behave in that situation, from the perspective of a native English speaker?
Well, I picked "Charlie" in part because the internet assures me it's now thoroughly ungendered, so "guy" is maybe a bit off, but other than that it's grammatically fine for me; I don't think it would even strike me as unusual.
Salmoneus wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:37 am Although thinking about it, I suppose it does work, with other permitted descriptors: "I have repeatedly asked the Prime Minister for a response, but my right honourable friend has not yet replied".
Yeah, that's a good example.
Travis B.
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Travis B. »

To me Charlie is still gendered, despite what the Internet may say.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
akam chinjir
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by akam chinjir »

Ah, looks like I was served American data (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_(given_name)).
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Pabappa
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Pabappa »

i'd expect the female ones to use the /š/ pronunciation and the males the /č/, but it suggests that a lot of the girls named Charlie are just toddlers now so that may change.
Travis B.
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Travis B. »

Pabappa wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:03 pm i'd expect the female ones to use the /š/ pronunciation and the males the /č/, but it suggests that a lot of the girls named Charlie are just toddlers now so that may change.
I would expect the same myself w.r.t. pronunciation.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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Linguoboy
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Linguoboy »

Pabappa wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:03 pmi'd expect the female ones to use the /š/ pronunciation and the males the /č/, but it suggests that a lot of the girls named Charlie are just toddlers now so that may change.
I didn't even realise there was an /ʃ/ pronunciation.

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Salmoneus
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Salmoneus »

Nor did I.
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alynnidalar
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by alynnidalar »

akam chinjir wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:50 pm Ah, looks like I was served American data (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_(given_name)).
Mmm, it's more popular as a name of new people, but I suspect most Americans named "Charlie" are still (adult) men. It's definitely a name that I first think of as a "male" name, even though I don't find it hugely unusual for women to have it (although for adult women, I would expect it to be a short form of e.g. Charlotte)

I am also not familiar with pronouncing "Charlie" with /ʃ/, for either men or women.
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linguistcat
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by linguistcat »

Whether male or female, I still think of Charlie as more of a nickname. I don't know how I'd feel meeting someone with the actual given name "Charlie"; I'd assume it was short for something
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Travis B.
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Travis B. »

linguistcat wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:05 pm Whether male or female, I still think of Charlie as more of a nickname. I don't know how I'd feel meeting someone with the actual given name "Charlie"; I'd assume it was short for something
I agree - Charlie does not seem like something that would actually be one's legal first name.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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Linguoboy
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Linguoboy »

Travis B. wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:35 pm
linguistcat wrote: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:05 pm Whether male or female, I still think of Charlie as more of a nickname. I don't know how I'd feel meeting someone with the actual given name "Charlie"; I'd assume it was short for something
I agree - Charlie does not seem like something that would actually be one's legal first name.
Disagree, especially for women. Using diminutives as given names is a longstanding American tradition. My ex' father was legally named "Joe" and, were he still alive, he'd be a hundred by now. My great-aunt, his contemporary, was legally named "Peggy".
Travis B.
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Travis B. »

In the age group I grew up in it was the norm for kids to be named one longer formal name legally, and to actually use a shortened, often diminutive version most of the time in Real Life (e.g. be legally named Elizabeth, Jonathan, Katherine or Robert but be called Liz, Jon, Katie or Kate, or Rob respectively. However, those people's own kids do not seem to follow that pattern, where now they just have single first names they go by, rather than a longer formal, legal name and a shorter/diminutive informal name.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Curlyjimsam
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Curlyjimsam »

Salmoneus wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:30 am So a phrase like "his excellency" isn't just a noun with a possessive attached; it's a lexical unit in its own right. And it's a lexical unit that's only ever used pronominally. You can't, for example, say "there were seven his excellencies in the room" (or even "there were seven excellencies in the room", unless by jocular wordplay).
I think *seven his excellencies is out for separate reasons, namely (a) his can't refer to multiple individuals, and (b) possessive pronouns can't be immediately preceded by numerals. seven of their excellencies seems fine to me, and so does their seven excellencies at a stretch.

Someone could try to make an argument that if your excellency was really a second-person pronoun it would trigger second-person agreement, which it doesn't. (Your excellency is ... not Your excellency are ....) I think such an argument would be moderately convincing, but then we do also have second-person pronouns like German Sie or Spanish usted that similarly occur with third-person verb endings.
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Jonlang
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Re: Longer words for pronouns.

Post by Jonlang »

Welsh has "emphatic pronouns" which are all two syllables instead of the usual one syllable for the regular pronouns:

minnau, innau, finnau (< mi, i, fi) - 1st. sing.
ninnau (< ni) - 1st. pl.

tithau (< ti) 2nd. sing.
chithau (< chi) 2nd. pl.

fyntau (< fe/e, fo/o) 3rd. sing. masc.
hithau (< hi) 3rd. sing. fem.
nhwythau (< nhw) 3rd. pl

That's about all I can contribute, I've never come across longer ones as far as I know.
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