The "How Do You Pronounce X" Thread

[jal]

I would think vocalization of /l/ in "all" and "al-" is pretty common in British Estuary English?


JAL

[bradrn]

Does anyone have [o̞] or like with /l/-elision in almost, already, or all right? I've noticed my mom has this, where I have [ɒo̯] in almost and [ɒ] without /l/ in already and all right.

[ˈoːmɞ͡ʉstˢ]
[ɵˈʕʷeɾi]
[oˈʕʷɑ͡itˢ]

(as usual I’m not certain about my exact realisation of /r/)

But this is mostly just due to normal /l/-vocalisation.

[Darren]

The other day I heard someone say almost /ɔʉ̯mɔʉ̯st/, with what sounded like a GOAT vowel in the first syllable. That's not plain /l/-vocalisation; I'd say [ˈʊw̠mɔʉ̟̯s].

(as usual I’m not certain about my exact realisation of /r/)

Australian r has something weird going on. I'm very unsure about where I articulate it myself; there's some pharyngealisation, rounding and velarisation in there, and also something laminal which feels maybe pre-velar (?). I guess that would make it [ɰ̟ˠˤʷ]

[anteallach]

The other day I heard someone say almost /ɔʉ̯mɔʉ̯st/, with what sounded like a GOAT vowel in the first syllable. That's not plain /l/-vocalisation; I'd say [ˈʊw̠mɔʉ̟̯s].

I have a friend who has GOAT (and no /l/) in at least some of these al- words. I'd guess it's the result of an earlier irregular l-vocalisation.

[jal]

I have a friend who has GOAT (and no /l/) in at least some of these al- words. I'd guess it's the result of an earlier irregular l-vocalisation.

Why would that be an irregular l-vocalisation? If the /l/ is vocalised to /u/, you get /ɔu/, which is close enough to GOAT to shift over?


JAL

[jal]

I have a friend who has GOAT (and no /l/) in at least some of these al- words. I'd guess it's the result of an earlier irregular l-vocalisation.

Why would that be an irregular l-vocalisation? If the /l/ is vocalised to /u/, you get /ɔu/, which is close enough to GOAT to shift over?


JAL

[Darren]

I have a friend who has GOAT (and no /l/) in at least some of these al- words. I'd guess it's the result of an earlier irregular l-vocalisation.

Why would that be an irregular l-vocalisation? If the /l/ is vocalised to /u/, you get /ɔu/, which is close enough to GOAT to shift over?


JAL

Cause it doesn't happen in other words. Anyway in Australian english, you'd get /ʊw/ with l-vocalisation; which is pretty far from GOAT /ɔy̯/.

[jal]

Cause it doesn't happen in other words. Anyway in Australian english, you'd get /ʊw/ with l-vocalisation; which is pretty far from GOAT /ɔy̯/.

Ok, fair enough. Would be interesting to see how other variants handle it.


JAL

[Travis B.]

Of course, I've noticed a different change in already and all right in how my daughter pronounces them, where she will pronounce them with [aʁˤ] - note that this is not START, which is [ɑʁˤ]~[ʌʁˤ] here.

[Travis B.]

I noticed that for me at least, titanium and DICOM (as in the DICOM standard) are anomalous phonologically because they don't undergo the raising that would be expected from the fortis obstruent following the stressed vowel.

[Kuchigakatai]

"Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

What do you guys do?

[Raphael]

Until now, I would have pronounced both with the stress on the first syllable, but English is my second language. Thank you for enlightening me!

[Travis B.]

"Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

What do you guys do?

I pronounce Japanese on the first syllable.

[Linguoboy]

"Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

For both these words, there's a secondary stress on the initial syllable when pronounced with final stress and vice versa, so I find I can alternate the primary stress without really noticing. You'd have to record me to find out which pattern I use more often.

[Travis B.]

"Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

For both these words, there's a secondary stress on the initial syllable when pronounced with final stress and vice versa, so I find I can alternate the primary stress without really noticing. You'd have to record me to find out which pattern I use more often.

Often I find it hard to tell secondary and primary stresses apart myself.

I forgot to mention that I do stress Vietnamese on the final syllable.

[jal]

I'd find it sound like deliberate contrastive stress. "It's JAPanese, not VIETnamese". Odd, at any account.


JAL

[Kuchigakatai]

"Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

For both these words, there's a secondary stress on the initial syllable when pronounced with final stress and vice versa, so I find I can alternate the primary stress without really noticing. You'd have to record me to find out which pattern I use more often.

This reminds me, one time in phonetics class in college (EDIT: at UBC, I should say), the prof did a quick poll asking which syllable of a four-syllable -ation word (don't remember which, but let's say it was "application") had primary stress. About 60% of the class voted for "ápplication", and the remaining part voted for "applicátion"... I was very amused. The prof (a native speaker of Icelandic) said he believed it was "applicátion", which is what any dictionary would say, but I suspect something more like what you say is going on here.

[Travis B.]

This reminds me, one time in phonetics class in college (EDIT: at UBC, I should say), the prof did a quick poll asking which syllable of a four-syllable -ation word (don't remember which, but let's say it was "application") had primary stress. About 60% of the class voted for "ápplication", and the remaining part voted for "applicátion"... I was very amused. The prof (a native speaker of Icelandic) said he believed it was "applicátion", which is what any dictionary would say, but I suspect something more like what you say is going on here.

From some thought about this (and discussion with my parents), "ápplication" seems more pertinent when speaking of computer applications while "applicátion" seems more pertinent when speaking of the application of, say, a lotion or cosmetic. Here the big factor may be how nouny or verby the usage is. As for myself, I would use either depending on how it is used.

[Linguoboy]

This reminds me, one time in phonetics class in college (EDIT: at UBC, I should say), the prof did a quick poll asking which syllable of a four-syllable -ation word (don't remember which, but let's say it was "application") had primary stress. About 60% of the class voted for "ápplication", and the remaining part voted for "applicátion"... I was very amused. The prof (a native speaker of Icelandic) said he believed it was "applicátion", which is what any dictionary would say, but I suspect something more like what you say is going on here.

From some thought about this (and discussion with my parents), "ápplication" seems more pertinent when speaking of computer applications while "applicátion" seems more pertinent when speaking of the application of, say, a lotion or cosmetic. Here the big factor may be how nouny or verby
the usage is. As for myself, I would use either depending on how it is used.

I wonder if the first usage of "application" is being influenced by the shortened form "app". Similarly, with the second usage, the sense of "apply" is very salient, so the pronunciation of that word might be exerting an influence on perception, production, or both.

[Linguoboy]

subsequently