Zompist Bboard Again

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:03 pm Does anyone have [o̞] or like with /l/-elision in almost, already, or all right? I've noticed my mom has this, where I have [ɒo̯] in almost and [ɒ] without /l/ in already and all right.

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:06 am (as usual I’m not certain about my exact realisation of /r/)

Darren wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 3:41 am The other day I heard someone say almost /ɔʉ̯mɔʉ̯st/, with what sounded like a GOAT vowel in the first syllable. That's not plain /l/-vocalisation; I'd say [ˈʊw̠mɔʉ̟̯s].

anteallach wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:39 amI have a friend who has GOAT (and no /l/) in at least some of these al- words. I'd guess it's the result of an earlier irregular l-vocalisation.

jal wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:10 am

anteallach wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:39 amI have a friend who has GOAT (and no /l/) in at least some of these al- words. I'd guess it's the result of an earlier irregular l-vocalisation.

Why would that be an irregular l-vocalisation? If the /l/ is vocalised to /u/, you get /ɔu/, which is close enough to GOAT to shift over?


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:10 am

anteallach wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:39 amI have a friend who has GOAT (and no /l/) in at least some of these al- words. I'd guess it's the result of an earlier irregular l-vocalisation.

Why would that be an irregular l-vocalisation? If the /l/ is vocalised to /u/, you get /ɔu/, which is close enough to GOAT to shift over?


JAL

Darren wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:18 amCause it doesn't happen in other words. Anyway in Australian english, you'd get /ʊw/ with l-vocalisation; which is pretty far from GOAT /ɔy̯/.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:53 am "Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

What do you guys do?

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:53 am "Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:41 am

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:53 am "Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

For both these words, there's a secondary stress on the initial syllable when pronounced with final stress and vice versa, so I find I can alternate the primary stress without really noticing. You'd have to record me to find out which pattern I use more often.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:41 am

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:53 am "Japanese"

I notice a lot of people in Vancouver pronounce this stressed in the first syllable, Jápanese, contra pretty much every dictionary, including J. C. Wells' Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2000). And I don't really think I'm mishearing it...

Curiously, Vietnamese is pronounced Vietnamése, as expected.

For both these words, there's a secondary stress on the initial syllable when pronounced with final stress and vice versa, so I find I can alternate the primary stress without really noticing. You'd have to record me to find out which pattern I use more often.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:36 pm This reminds me, one time in phonetics class in college (EDIT: at UBC, I should say), the prof did a quick poll asking which syllable of a four-syllable -ation word (don't remember which, but let's say it was "application") had primary stress. About 60% of the class voted for "ápplication", and the remaining part voted for "applicátion"... I was very amused. The prof (a native speaker of Icelandic) said he believed it was "applicátion", which is what any dictionary would say, but I suspect something more like what you say is going on here.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:54 pm

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:36 pm This reminds me, one time in phonetics class in college (EDIT: at UBC, I should say), the prof did a quick poll asking which syllable of a four-syllable -ation word (don't remember which, but let's say it was "application") had primary stress. About 60% of the class voted for "ápplication", and the remaining part voted for "applicátion"... I was very amused. The prof (a native speaker of Icelandic) said he believed it was "applicátion", which is what any dictionary would say, but I suspect something more like what you say is going on here.

From some thought about this (and discussion with my parents), "ápplication" seems more pertinent when speaking of computer applications while "applicátion" seems more pertinent when speaking of the application of, say, a lotion or cosmetic. Here the big factor may be how nouny or verby
the usage is. As for myself, I would use either depending on how it is used.