Zompist Bboard Again

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 4:02 pm

Darren wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:49 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 2:47 pm (After a nasal I realize initial /ð/ as [n̪] regardless of register

Can I get an example?

/ˈju.kən.ˈsi.ət.ənˌðɪsˌɪɡˈzæm.pəl/
[ˈjy.kn̩.ˈtsiː.ɘʔ.ɘ̃ːn̪ˌn̪ɪ̈sˌɪ̈ːkˈsɛ̃̆ə̯̃̆m.pɯ]
You can see it in this example.

Darren wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 5:24 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 4:02 pm

Darren wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:49 pm

Can I get an example?

/ˈju.kən.ˈsi.ət.ənˌðɪsˌɪɡˈzæm.pəl/
[ˈjy.kn̩.ˈtsiː.ɘʔ.ɘ̃ːn̪ˌn̪ɪ̈sˌɪ̈ːkˈsɛ̃̆ə̯̃̆m.pɯ]
You can see it in this example.

That's how I react when I see your comments about AusE phonology

Is the "t" in "often" silent? I think I learned it that way long ago, but now I've seen videos where people pronounce it.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:19 am Is the "t" in "often" silent? I think I learned it that way long ago, but now I've seen videos where people pronounce it.

It can be either. I don't know if it is loss in some places, or loss everywhere and then a spelling pronunciation.

Lērisama wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:09 am

It can be either. I don't know if it is loss in some places, or loss everywhere and then a spelling pronunciation.

Thank you!

Lērisama wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:09 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:19 am Is the "t" in "often" silent? I think I learned it that way long ago, but now I've seen videos where people pronounce it.

It can be either. I don't know if it is loss in some places, or loss everywhere and then a spelling pronunciation.

"often" is a recent spelling pronunciation. Early 20th-century dictionaries record only the /ˈɔfən/ pronunciation. The spelling pronunciation seems to have become more popular over the span of my lifetime, but that could simply be the recency illusion.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:44 am
"often" is a recent spelling pronunciation. Early 20th-century dictionaries record only the /ˈɔfən/ pronunciation. The spelling pronunciation seems to have become more popular over the span of my lifetime, but that could simply be the recency illusion.

Thank you, too!

I am with Linguoboy here. The historical pronunciation of often has no /t/, with the /t/-ful pronunciation being a modern spelling pronunciation.

Speaking of spelling pronunciations, how do you guys pronounce figure (the verb)? I am familiar with two pronunciations, /ˈfɪɡər/ and /ˈfɪɡjər/, and apparently the latter is a spelling pronunciation.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 12:22 pmSpeaking of spelling pronunciations, how do you guys pronounce figure (the verb)? I am familiar with two pronunciations, /ˈfɪɡər/ and /ˈfɪɡjər/, and apparently the latter is a spelling pronunciation.

I have both in my speech. Not sure what governs usage other than that in the expression "Go figure!" /ˈfɪɡjər/ sounds affected.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 11:44 am "often" is a recent spelling pronunciation. Early 20th-century dictionaries record only the /ˈɔfən/ pronunciation. The spelling pronunciation seems to have become more popular over the span of my lifetime, but that could simply be the recency illusion.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 12:22 pm I am with Linguoboy here. The historical pronunciation of often has no /t/, with the /t/-ful pronunciation being a modern spelling pronunciation.

Thank you both.

Speaking of spelling pronunciations, how do you guys pronounce figure (the verb)? I am familiar with two pronunciations, /ˈfɪɡər/ and /ˈfɪɡjər/, and apparently the latter is a spelling pronunciation.

The form with a yod sounds American to me. If you pronounce it with an overlong [ɻ̩ːː] as well it's pretty much textbook affected bad¹ American accent.

¹ As in, an on purposely inaccurate American accent is put on (usually to mock Amercians, or an American in general)

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 12:32 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 12:22 pmSpeaking of spelling pronunciations, how do you guys pronounce figure (the verb)? I am familiar with two pronunciations, /ˈfɪɡər/ and /ˈfɪɡjər/, and apparently the latter is a spelling pronunciation.

I have both in my speech. Not sure what governs usage other than that in the expression "Go figure!" /ˈfɪɡjər/ sounds affected.

I have both in my speech as well, with the main difference for me being that /ˈfɪɡər/ is more lower-register while /ˈfɪɡjər/ is more higher-register.

Does anyone actually pronounce kindergarten in English with a /t/, rather than doing what I am familiar with and pronouncing it like 'kindergarden'?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 12:22 pm Speaking of spelling pronunciations, how do you guys pronounce figure (the verb)? I am familiar with two pronunciations, /ˈfɪɡər/ and /ˈfɪɡjər/, and apparently the latter is a spelling pronunciation.

I pronounce it without /j/ and for a long time I didn't know there was any other pronunciation.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Mar 27, 2025 4:54 pm Does anyone actually pronounce kindergarten in English with a /t/, rather than doing what I am familiar with and pronouncing it like 'kindergarden'?

I pronounce it with /t/ [ʔ].

jcb wrote:* I normally raise the lax front vowels /{ E I/ before /g N/, but they are still phonetically and phonemically different from /e i/. I'm not sure of the exact qualities that they're raised too. I should look at them on Praat some day.

I fulfill my promise:


I guess I'd say they're like so:
/{g/ = [{jg]
/Eg/ = [Ejg]
/Ig/ = [Ijg]

/{g/ and /Eg/ are close, but I can still distinguish them. However, I admit that the eventually fate of /{g/ and /Eg/ is probably to merge with /eg/, as some people already do.

Thoughts?

I mapped my English diphthongs:


You can see the difference in quality between the /aj/ in BITE and BIDE. BIDE dips down to [A], but BITE stays around [V].

But what is going on with my /aw/? It starts lower than my /{/, and goes only as high and back as [Q]. I rerecorded it a couple times, and always got roughly the same result. Maybe this is related to the unrounding and centrality I have in my /u/? Is this a known phenomenon, or am I just weird?

It's amazing I can still understand spoken speech at all, given that most F2s are inaudible to me :D.


JAL