Zompist Bboard Again

I'm trying to remember at what point I learned that the apostrophes in names aren't pronounced as glottal stops. Specifically, I'm recalling reading A wrinkle in time in junior high and thinking for years that the author's name was pronounced [ləʔˈɪŋgɫ̩].

Finally, I have just been able to find a pronunciation I had to unlearn in Spanish.

Carácter [kaˈɾaɣteɾ], plural caracteres [kaɾaɣˈteɾes], is notable in Spanish for its irregular stress shift in the plural. Unlike other words (such as régimen ~ regímenes and ómicron ~ omicrones), the stress shift does not occur because of a phonological rule, cf. cráter ~ cráteres. It's there simply to imitate Latin. I think it might possibly be the only example of its kind, cf. the regular animal ~ animales, where the singular could've been *ánimal [ˈanimal] as in Latin.

When I was a child and a teenager, I actually thought carácter and caracteres were separate words, the former meaning '(a person's) character' and the latter meaning '(Chinese) characters', and gave them the non-standard number forms *carácteres [kaˈɾaɣteɾes] ('people's character') and *caractere [kaɾaɣˈteɾe] ('a Chinese character') respectively. It wasn't until I was about 17 that I learned carácter and caracteres are in fact the same word.

I had to unlearn my pronunciation /ˈvɛlər/ for velar.

Ser wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:25 pmCarácter [kaˈɾaɣteɾ], plural caracteres [kaɾaɣˈteɾes], is notable in Spanish for its irregular stress shift in the plural. Unlike other words (such as régimen ~ regímenes and ómicron ~ omicrones), the stress shift does not occur because of a phonological rule, cf. cráter ~ cráteres. It's there simply to imitate Latin. I think it might possibly be the only example of its kind, cf. the regular animal ~ animales, where the singular could've been *ánimal [ˈanimal] as in Latin.

This reminds me that I recently misread the name of Mexico City colonia in Cuauhtémoc as *Dóctores due to how it was printed on a map and was giving it initial stress for the better part of a day until I finally double-checked it. (For that matter, I've been having trouble nailing the stress on Cuauhtémoc consistently as well.)

Ser wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:25 pm Finally, I have just been able to find a pronunciation I had to unlearn in Spanish.

Carácter [kaˈɾaɣteɾ], plural caracteres [kaɾaɣˈteɾes], is notable in Spanish for its irregular stress shift in the plural. Unlike other words (such as régimen ~ regímenes and ómicron ~ omicrones), the stress shift does not occur because of a phonological rule, cf. cráter ~ cráteres. It's there simply to imitate Latin. I think it might possibly be the only example of its kind, cf. the regular animal ~ animales, where the singular could've been *ánimal [ˈanimal] as in Latin.

Apparently German Chaˈrakter also has a stress shift in the plural Charakˈtere.

Estav wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:52 pmApparently German Chaˈrakter also has a stress shift in the plural Charakˈtere.

It looks like there could be an incipient split with Charakˈter, Charakˈtere being used for "fictional character" and Chaˈrakter, Chaˈraktere being used for all other senses.

Dammit, I guess I need to start saying "enmity" instead of "emnity".

I just learned that entrails is generally pronounced with /ɛ/ like entry rather than with /ɑ/ like entree.

Estav wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:31 pm I just learned that entrails is generally pronounced with /ɛ/ like entry rather than with /ɑ/ like entree.

I use both in free variation. I still have no idea which is correct in envelope (the noun).

I pronounce envelope (the noun) with LOT even though many people here pronounce it with DRESS.

I have now also remembered I used to pronounce reivindicar as reinvindicar, with an intrusive n. It appears this intrusive n happens in some native speech among both Spanish and Portuguese speakers, but it's certainly non-standard in both languages.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:44 pm I pronounce envelope (the noun) with LOT even though many people here pronounce it with DRESS.

Same.

bezel. I never heard it spoken, and assumed /bi:z@l/. Just heard a native speaker use /bEz@l/.


JAL

I worked at a job repairing laptops and heard both pronunciations. But we mostly said it with /i:/ after our shipping & receiving shut down temporarily and we found ourselves looking at a "leaning tower of bezels".

jal wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:01 ambezel. I never heard it spoken, and assumed /bi:z@l/. Just heard a native speaker use /bEz@l/.

If it were pronounced that way, I've be less likely to confuse it with bevel, as I am wont to do.

Not me, but my mother. She used to say "intersecsora" for intercesora 'intercessor, intermediary, mediator' when talking about the Virgin Mary until I corrected her. It appears she thought it was related to intersección 'intersection' instead of interceder 'intercede, intervene, mediate'.

I imagine this wouldn't have happened if she distinguished /θ/ from /s/, because then intersección would be /inteɾsekˈθjon/, so when hearing /inteɾθeˈsoɾa/ it would've been obvious that the word has a different root.

jal wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:01 am bezel. I never heard it spoken, and assumed /bi:z@l/. Just heard a native speaker use /bEz@l/.


JAL

I say /bEz@l/ and would be surprised to hear it with /i:/

Is Indonesian language pronounciation included? I used to pronounce manga as [man.ga]. It turns out that it's pronounced [maŋ.ɡa], the same as mangga.

Akangka wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:30 amIs Indonesian language pronounciation included? I used to pronounce manga as [man.ga]. It turns out that it's pronounced [maŋ.ɡa], the same as mangga.

The funny thing being that in most European languages, /n.g/ becomes [ŋ.ɡ], so [maŋ.ɡa] is the automatic option for most of us. Cool to hear from another language.


JAL

Akangka wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:30 amIs Indonesian language pronounciation included?

Of course. This isn't for any particular language.