Zompist Bboard Again

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:27 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:27 am One thing I noticed from listening to the song Nebel by Rammstein is that Till Lindemann pronounces the word geküsst as what sounds like gek[ø]sst to my ears. Note that while Till Lindemann sings in StG, I have heard things from Germans saying he pronounces it with a noticeable accent beyond mere aspects of "stage German". Any thoughts on this?

Yes, it is close to Stage German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch). Which was a defined standard that radio and tv announcers were trained in. t makes sense that they would keep the vowels as distinct as possible. It was used before and during second world war and, in Western Germany, it was also used to some extent in the time after the war. Hitler's speeches are influenced by this but so is the radio live report on Das Wunder von Bern. To me, that makes Rammstein sound old-timey and like they want to go to war (my subjective opinion). One of the reasons why I never liked the music.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:24 am**

Creyeditor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:27 am
Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:27 am One thing I noticed from listening to the song Nebel by Rammstein is that Till Lindemann pronounces the word geküsst as what sounds like gek[ø]sst to my ears. Note that while Till Lindemann sings in StG, I have heard things from Germans saying he pronounces it with a noticeable accent beyond mere aspects of "stage German". Any thoughts on this?
Yes, it is close to Stage German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch). Which was a defined standard that radio and tv announcers were trained in. t makes sense that they would keep the vowels as distinct as possible. It was used before and during second world war and, in Western Germany, it was also used to some extent in the time after the war. Hitler's speeches are influenced by this but so is the radio live report on Das Wunder von Bern. To me, that makes Rammstein sound old-timey and like they want to go to war (my subjective opinion). One of the reasons why I never liked the music.

So to you Stage German is militaristic in and of itself, even when there is no other association with National Socialism?

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2025 10:52 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:24 am So to you Stage German is militaristic in and of itself, even when there is no other association with National Socialism?

I don't see/hear the connection between Bühnenaussprache and Hitler spoofs; they are two completely different things. And actually, I like the music of Rammstein to some degree, especially Flake's keyboard sounds; but the stage antics, Lindemann's fake-Nazi singing and the way they write songs about controversial subjects such as child abuse, cannibalism or US imperialism not in order to criticize them but solely for the sake of public arousal and record sales, put me off.

Posted: **Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:14 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 7:39 pmthe typical German almost-/iː/

I'm not sure that's really typical. I've heard a lot of German speakers that have /ɛː/, not even /eː/. See e.g. this clip (YouTube).

JAL

Posted: **Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:31 am**

jal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:14 am
Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 7:39 pmthe typical German almost-/iː/
I'm not sure that's really typical. I've heard a lot of German speakers that have /ɛː/, not even /eː/. See e.g. this clip (YouTube).

Yeah, but that's before /r/, where many German varieties, including regiolects of StG, do funny things with mid front vowels. For instance, one of the people recorded had a very noticeably closer vowel in später than in werde.

Posted: **Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:41 am**

And actually the vast majority of those German-speakers recorded had something awfully close to my native English Mary/merry/marry, which is [ɛ̝(ː)ʁˤ], minus the pharyngealization.

Posted: **Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:52 am**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:24 am
Creyeditor wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:27 am
Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 9:27 am One thing I noticed from listening to the song Nebel by Rammstein is that Till Lindemann pronounces the word geküsst as what sounds like gek[ø]sst to my ears. Note that while Till Lindemann sings in StG, I have heard things from Germans saying he pronounces it with a noticeable accent beyond mere aspects of "stage German". Any thoughts on this?
Yes, it is close to Stage German (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch). Which was a defined standard that radio and tv announcers were trained in. t makes sense that they would keep the vowels as distinct as possible. It was used before and during second world war and, in Western Germany, it was also used to some extent in the time after the war. Hitler's speeches are influenced by this but so is the radio live report on Das Wunder von Bern. To me, that makes Rammstein sound old-timey and like they want to go to war (my subjective opinion). One of the reasons why I never liked the music.
So to you Stage German is militaristic in and of itself, even when there is no other association with National Socialism?

It sounds militaristic to me, yes. And it's independent of political affiliation. Earlier socialist speeches and music also sound militaristic to me.

Posted: **Sat Mar 29, 2025 10:34 am**

german /e:/ has always been perfectly distinct from /i:/ when i hear it spoken, certainly much more so than hungarian /e:/ which (at least in the music of neoton familia which is my only real interaction with the language) is virtually indistinguishable from /i:/

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