Zompist Bboard Again

jal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:55 pm

Ahzoh wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 5:29 pm/ˈɑː.ni/ "1sg,NOM/ sounds mellifluous but /ˈɑː.mɑ/ "2sg.NOM" and /ˈɑː.sɑ/ "3sg.NOM" sound absolutely strenuous to say.

Apart from "ani" being Hebrew, I have no qualms with "ama" or "asa". You may find them unpleasant, but you cannot be serious they're "strenuous".

I am serious, I feel like I have to put in more articulatory effort to say those words compared to /ˈɑː.ni/ and /ˈɑː.ti/

Also they're all formed by combining the morpheme ā- with the subject suffixes, just as the negative agreement pronouns are form by the morpheme tuC- and the subject suffixes.

Ahzoh wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:14 pm

jal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:55 pm

Ahzoh wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 5:29 pm/ˈɑː.ni/ "1sg,NOM/ sounds mellifluous but /ˈɑː.mɑ/ "2sg.NOM" and /ˈɑː.sɑ/ "3sg.NOM" sound absolutely strenuous to say.

Apart from "ani" being Hebrew, I have no qualms with "ama" or "asa". You may find them unpleasant, but you cannot be serious they're "strenuous".

I am serious, I feel like I have to put in more articulatory effort to say those words compared to /ˈɑː.ni/ and /ˈɑː.ti/

when I try saying them, I expend as much movement in my mouth saying /ti/ as I do saying /sa/ though if its too much irritant, just switch to /si/ instead.

and /ma/ and /mi/ are no more effortful than /ni/

Also they're all formed by combining the morpheme ā- with the subject suffixes, just as the negative agreement pronouns are form by the morpheme tuC- and the subject suffixes.

and thats a bad thing?

keenir wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 11:46 pm

Ahzoh wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 7:14 pm

jal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:55 pm
Apart from "ani" being Hebrew, I have no qualms with "ama" or "asa". You may find them unpleasant, but you cannot be serious they're "strenuous".

I am serious, I feel like I have to put in more articulatory effort to say those words compared to /ˈɑː.ni/ and /ˈɑː.ti/

when I try saying them, I expend as much movement in my mouth saying /ti/ as I do saying /sa/ though if its too much irritant, just switch to /si/ instead.

and /ma/ and /mi/ are no more effortful than /ni/

I suppose it is just me then

The vocalic pattern of the subject affixes is -ni, -ma, -ta/-sa, -ti, -man, -tan/-san so that there is no conflation between the third person singular and the 1st person plural, otherwise i would have made them all end in -i just like the oblique suffixes.

I also thought about changing the third person suffixes to a different consonant, but coronals like /t/ just have a lot of adjacental compatibility with other consonants that I can't find with, say, /p b k g s x/.

Any one here good with mediawiki code (not Lua) and template stuff?

A somewhat random question, but… I remember seeing a joke conlang a couple of years ago, and I’m trying to find it again. The problem is that I don’t remember what it was called, nor the name of the creator (though IIRC he was a professional linguist). I do have a general memory of the premise of the conlang: it was presented as an overview of a real language somewhere in the world (perhaps the Caucasus), with all its features as annoying and unhelpful to the linguist as conceivably possible. The phonology was nearly unpronouncable, the morphology was obnoxious, and (IIRC) to round it off the customs of the locals involving harassing any visiting linguists. As I recall, their local legend was supposed to be that God gave them this language as punishment. I recall the phrase ‘phase of the moon’ cropping up at one point.

Alas, searching online for the key phrases here turns up nothing. But perhaps one of our long-timers has some recollection of what I’m talking about?

Maybe something in Speculative Grammarian? Otherwise, no idea.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:55 am Maybe something in Speculative Grammarian? Otherwise, no idea.

I did consider that, but I’m pretty sure the actual document was just a PDF on the author’s personal webpage.

Glass Half Baked wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 5:46 pm Found it.

Ha, ha, ha. Very funny.

Lexember is coming up.

I am once again asking for help with wiki code regarding templates, mostly to do with assimilation rules and root-weakness rules (I can get one or the other but not both and it's pissing me off)

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 8:23 pmLexember is coming up.

What's that?


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 3:05 am

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 8:23 pmLexember is coming up.

What's that?


JAL

I think it's the idea that conlangers might use December to work on their lexicon.

see : https://www.frathwiki.com/Lexember

I have decided that instead of participating in just Lexember alone, I may or may not also attempt to start translating Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita into Sodemeresh Chansha (New Sodemeresh, which is really more 'reworked Sodemeresh'). It's a very good book.

AwfullyAmateur wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 12:02 pmI have decided that instead of participating in just Lexember alone, I may or may not also attempt to start translating Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita into Sodemeresh Chansha (New Sodemeresh, which is really more 'reworked Sodemeresh'). It's a very good book.

And here I was thinking translating the Hobbit was already quite a difficult task :D


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 1:48 pm

AwfullyAmateur wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 12:02 pmI have decided that instead of participating in just Lexember alone, I may or may not also attempt to start translating Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita into Sodemeresh Chansha (New Sodemeresh, which is really more 'reworked Sodemeresh'). It's a very good book.

And here I was thinking translating the Hobbit was already quite a difficult task


JAL

I do not expect to complete it any time soon. How is your translation going, btw?

AwfullyAmateur wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 4:05 pmI do not expect to complete it any time soon. How is your translation going, btw?

After a small hiatus (as things go), I've picked up translating chapter 7 again, "Queer Lodgings". The first two passes are (almost) finished, now doing the 3rd pass*. If I keep it up, the chapter will probably be finished somewhere in Q1 2025.

*I work with several passes: first pass is a quick "translate what you can, skip what you can't". 2nd pass is a "fill in the holes, mark everything you're not sure about in pink" (which is typicall still 10-20% of it). 3rd pass is "turn everything that's pink to black by either replacing it or working the translation into the dictionary and/or grammar". 4th pass is "reread everything from start to finish without looking at the translation, and update everything that's not clear or causes a garden path (there's a lot of homonyms in Sajiwan). 5th pass is a final read, typically I shave things here and there. After the 5th pass it should be finished, and I rinse and repeat with the next chapter. Some chapters have rhymes or songs, which need special treatment (e.g. chapter 7 has the dwarves singing around Beorns fire place), as the meter and rhyme should fit.


JAL