Ooh, very nice. I always like a nice explanatory Twin Aster post.
More: show
Twin Aster
Re: Twin Aster
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Re: Twin Aster
I never have understood ‘defence’ vs ‘defense’ myself. Indeed, it took me some years before I even realised that there were two different spellings…
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
I have been wondering about CT, O, and their place in (and even just the place of) Beheic more generally. This is what I’ve come up with so far; behind the “more” tag is a somewhat stream-of-consciousness I was working things out with, if you’re curious.
Proto-Tim Ar-O phonology
/*m *n̪ *n *nʲ *ŋ/
/*p *pʰ *t̪ *t̪ʰ *t *tʰ *tʲ *tʲʰ *k *kʰ *q *qʰ *ʔ/
/*θ *s *ʃ *h/
/*β *ð *ɹ *j/
/*l/
/*a *ə *ɨ/
(C)(R)V(R)(ʔ)
Proto-Tim Ar-O to Classical ⅁are n Tim Ar
I really don’t have much yet, as I was concentrating more on CT. I do know O is merge-happy; **ɨ and **ə merge into *e, the aspirate series merges into the tenuis series, and there's general merging of the sonorants. I'm going to try to see if I can’t epenthesize some sounds, particularly vowels or resonants, into the mix.
Tim Ar-O’s position within Beheic
I'm definitely thinking about reconstructing back to the second-order ancestor, Proto-Beheic (PB). PTO has a reduced system of vowels, so I’m thinking I can shuffle around suprasegmentals and secondary articulations or whatever and come up with something good. Probably a lot of vowel deletions and then consonants (particularly the fricatives merging into the sonorants in PTO, maybe stops too if the positioning gets all weird). Maybe have nasalization as a secondary contrast that is lost in PTO but causes nasals and what have you messing with other branches therefrom.
Proto-Tim Ar-O phonology
/*m *n̪ *n *nʲ *ŋ/
/*p *pʰ *t̪ *t̪ʰ *t *tʰ *tʲ *tʲʰ *k *kʰ *q *qʰ *ʔ/
/*θ *s *ʃ *h/
/*β *ð *ɹ *j/
/*l/
/*a *ə *ɨ/
(C)(R)V(R)(ʔ)
Proto-Tim Ar-O to Classical ⅁are n Tim Ar
- Vocalic Dispersal
- aβ əβ ɨβ > ɔ o u
- aj əj ɨj > ɛ e i
- a ə ɨ > ɛ e i / Cʲ_
- a ə ɨ > ɔ o u / P_
- ə ɨ > a i / {K,Q}(R)_
- ə ɨ > a i / _#
- Tonogenesis
- [+syll] > [+tone] /([+asp],[+cont -son]) ([-syll]) _
- [+syll =fr/bk =hi/lo] > [+tone] / [+syll =fr/bk =hi/lo] _
- [+asp] [+cont -son] h > [-asp] [+son] Ø
- Loss of final consonants
- [-syll -son] > Ø / _#
- First spirantization
- [-syll -son -cont] > [+cont] / _{j,i,u} (except glottal stop)
- Parasonorant high vowel deletion
- [-syll +hi] > Ø / _ [+son]
- [-syll +hi] > Ø / [+son] _
- 7-to-5 vowel merger
- ɛ e ɔ o > e i o u
- Second spirantization
- β ð ɹ l j > h θ s ɬ ʃ / _ʔ
- β ð ɹ l j > h θ s ɬ ʃ / ʔ_
- m n̪ n nʲ ŋ > p t̪ t tʲ k / _ʔ
- ʔ > Ø
- Emergence of the CT vowel schema
- βE jB > [+ro] [-ro]
- [+syll +fr/bk ±hi ±tone ±ro][+syll +bk/fr +POA] > [±hi ±tone ±ro +POA]
- [+syll ±fr/bk ±hi/lo ±ro][+syll ±fr/bk ±hi/lo ±ro] > [+tone]
- [+syll +hi] > Ø / VC_#
- *p-affectation (the conditioning for this might change later, TBD)
- ð ɹ l > tθ ts tɬ / _p
- The Chain
- l > ʕ
- θ ð n̪ > ɬ l t
- s ʃ > θ s
- nʲ tʲ > n s
- Plosive lenitions
- p q > h x
- t k > ɹ ʕ / V_
- (The other allophonic changes in CT go here)
I really don’t have much yet, as I was concentrating more on CT. I do know O is merge-happy; **ɨ and **ə merge into *e, the aspirate series merges into the tenuis series, and there's general merging of the sonorants. I'm going to try to see if I can’t epenthesize some sounds, particularly vowels or resonants, into the mix.
Tim Ar-O’s position within Beheic
I'm definitely thinking about reconstructing back to the second-order ancestor, Proto-Beheic (PB). PTO has a reduced system of vowels, so I’m thinking I can shuffle around suprasegmentals and secondary articulations or whatever and come up with something good. Probably a lot of vowel deletions and then consonants (particularly the fricatives merging into the sonorants in PTO, maybe stops too if the positioning gets all weird). Maybe have nasalization as a secondary contrast that is lost in PTO but causes nasals and what have you messing with other branches therefrom.
More: show
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
It occurred to me just now, about the conundrum I’ve been having with reconciling certain known “canon” parameters vis-à-vis CT, O, their relative positions both between them proper, Beheic languages generally, and history. I’ve been speaking of the “Tim Ar-O languages” for quite a while; of Beheic itself, not quite that long but also not exactly a new idea. I have been trying out sound change schemas in Brassica1 to try to get something that felt right. Brassica worked well; nothing I could come up with seemed germane.
Instead of merely reconstructing the TO branch of Beheic, what is the source of the words in question? What if it was actually PB after all, and the TO node split from Core Beheic happened early on? This could also affect how tones were generated (if at all).
As it currently stands, what originally was just Proto-Tim Ar-O is now Proto-Beheic; the Tim Ar and O branches split in the midst of, or just after, the tonogenesis (i.e., for Proto-Tim Ar-O, the buck stops at the initial point of tonogenesis). Tim Ar didn't do anything fancier than high/nonhigh. O, on the other hand, kept innovating on the tone side of things but then somehow lost the tone feature entirely, which explains the large number of homophones, kind of like in some Chinese lects or that one dialect of Klingon that had the voiced stops merge into the nasals (or in the case of /ɖ/, reflect as [ɳ]). So, if that can be made to work plausibly, maybe that’s a longstanding issue solved.
Before the shared tonogenesis, there were a few other attributes that the TO branch ended up inheriting, some things slightly ahead in the queue of the order of operations. Might as well start with the famous2 one: the “Great Vocalic Dispersal”. This is just an overly fancy way of saying that the vowel space in the language radically shifted in certain specific ways. It’s generally considered that the [something about the coda consonants and their uneven distribution due to, I guess, euphony?]. One may wonder why not simply reconstruct the vowel as just inherently rounded? Comparative method suggests that actual consonants were in there. In the TO branch, the (already heavily restricted) codas had all merged into *-β *-j *-ʁ.
Thus we can simultaneously innovate in one of several ways whilst still largely respecting extant canon.
The aspirate/tenuis series’ distribution is a function of the reflex of glottalization: A vowel that typically was understood to be glottalized ended up having a low tone and increasing voice onset time until the point where it stopped being a fight anymore.
glottalized > low tone > aspirate (positive VOT)
Proto-Beheic phonology
…would be something like this, then:
/*m *n̪ *n *nʲ *ŋ/
/*p *t̪ *t *tʲ *k *q *ʔ/
/*θ *s *ʃ *h/
/*β *ð *ɹ *ʁ/
/*a *ə *ɨ/, plus glottalization /*ˀ/
PB *(C)(R)V(ˀ)(D) > PTO *(C(ʰ))(R)V(G)
where R is any sonorant consonant and D is any sonorant consonant or *t̪ *t *tʲ.
Lenition comes with deglottalization?
Intervocalic lenition, blocked by vowel glottalization feature, subsequent lenition to different phone when glottalization converts to VOT
Proto-Beheic to Proto-Tim Ar-O
First lenition: *-p *-t̪ *-t *-tʲ {*-k,*-q} *-ʔ > *-β *-ð *-ɹ *-j *-ʁ *-ʔ / V _ {V,#}
Glottalic phonic forcing: *Vˀ > *V̀, thence > *hV if no onset, ʰV if *C(R)-, *R- > *F- (original *F unaffected)
The great vowel dispersal:
To CT
Final stop loss: Nothing too fancy here—*S > [/i]Ø / _#[/i].
First spirantization: *S > F / _{j,i,u} except *ʔ.
Parasonorant high vowel deletion: [+syll +hi] > Ø/ _ R, R _.
7-to-5 vowel merger: *ɛ *e *ɔ *o > e i o u.
Second spirantization: This is a bit of a misnomer as nasals were affected too.
Stop lenition:
Voicing rule: [-syll -vc] > [+vc] / [+vc] _ {[+vc],#} (*h exempted from this)
Needle clusters:
[/list]
To PO
Thorns and palatals: *θ *ð were lost before a consonant and became h elsewhere; *t̪ *n̪ merged with plain ol’ t n, and all the palatals lenited to j.
Glottalic saps: *ʔB *ʔE > w j when following a vowel; initial *ʔV- sequences are lost thanks to the glottal stop spoiling the fun.
Glide fortition: *w *j *ʁ > *p *t *k in three environments: word-initially before another glide, following a word-initial glottal stop, or when geminate (i.e., like glides fortite the first).
*q who?: A merger of *q into k.
Terminal *-hV: *h + one of *u *ú *i *í becomes either of w j, as appropriate, word-finally.
Second tonogenesis:
Loss of harmonic postglottal vocoids: This is just a fancy way of saying that when you have *-ʔji *-ʔwu (in all tones), it goes poof. gone.
Reassignment of neutral tone: The tone system, much like Mandarin, has four tones plus a “neutral” tone (heretofore denoted by its lack of a diacritic3); the neutral tone got reassigned. The neutral tone became circumflex except in three environments—
Mid-front mergers: The *ɛ vowel, in all its tones, raised to and merged with corresponding *e. All tones of *a became *ʁ when standing after *e.
Droppage of final -*ʔV: Final sequences of glottal stop plus any vowel drop.
Final-*is: *i in all tones becomes corresponding *e word-finally before a glottal stop (which then deletes).
Tone abandon: Tone was lost; if the vowel was low, mid, or circumflex and preceded a glide (i.e., one of *w *j *ʁ), it left behind a glottal stop.
Postglottalic glide fortition: The sequences *ʔw *ʔj *ʔʁ became *p *t *k; when one of *p *t *k + glide followed, the glottal stop instead became *w *j *ʁ, as appropriate.
*o fortuna: Before *e, the sequences *jo *ju became *j *w. Remaining *jo became *ja instead; the leftover *o merged with *u.
Lambda loss: *l became *nt when intervocalic and *n elsewhere.
*e-ncore: Initial *eC- sequences metathesized, with the resulting *-eV- sequence changing the latter element to its corresponding glide. Additionally, word-initially or after a word-initial consonant, *-ee- sequences become *-je-.
Loss of initial prelaryngeal vowels: *V0- > *Ø / # _ h V0.
PO allophonic processes: The synchrony of Proto-O.
Instead of merely reconstructing the TO branch of Beheic, what is the source of the words in question? What if it was actually PB after all, and the TO node split from Core Beheic happened early on? This could also affect how tones were generated (if at all).
As it currently stands, what originally was just Proto-Tim Ar-O is now Proto-Beheic; the Tim Ar and O branches split in the midst of, or just after, the tonogenesis (i.e., for Proto-Tim Ar-O, the buck stops at the initial point of tonogenesis). Tim Ar didn't do anything fancier than high/nonhigh. O, on the other hand, kept innovating on the tone side of things but then somehow lost the tone feature entirely, which explains the large number of homophones, kind of like in some Chinese lects or that one dialect of Klingon that had the voiced stops merge into the nasals (or in the case of /ɖ/, reflect as [ɳ]). So, if that can be made to work plausibly, maybe that’s a longstanding issue solved.
Before the shared tonogenesis, there were a few other attributes that the TO branch ended up inheriting, some things slightly ahead in the queue of the order of operations. Might as well start with the famous2 one: the “Great Vocalic Dispersal”. This is just an overly fancy way of saying that the vowel space in the language radically shifted in certain specific ways. It’s generally considered that the [something about the coda consonants and their uneven distribution due to, I guess, euphony?]. One may wonder why not simply reconstruct the vowel as just inherently rounded? Comparative method suggests that actual consonants were in there. In the TO branch, the (already heavily restricted) codas had all merged into *-β *-j *-ʁ.
Thus we can simultaneously innovate in one of several ways whilst still largely respecting extant canon.
The aspirate/tenuis series’ distribution is a function of the reflex of glottalization: A vowel that typically was understood to be glottalized ended up having a low tone and increasing voice onset time until the point where it stopped being a fight anymore.
glottalized > low tone > aspirate (positive VOT)
Proto-Beheic phonology
…would be something like this, then:
/*m *n̪ *n *nʲ *ŋ/
/*p *t̪ *t *tʲ *k *q *ʔ/
/*θ *s *ʃ *h/
/*β *ð *ɹ *ʁ/
/*a *ə *ɨ/, plus glottalization /*ˀ/
PB *(C)(R)V(ˀ)(D) > PTO *(C(ʰ))(R)V(G)
where R is any sonorant consonant and D is any sonorant consonant or *t̪ *t *tʲ.
Lenition comes with deglottalization?
Intervocalic lenition, blocked by vowel glottalization feature, subsequent lenition to different phone when glottalization converts to VOT
Proto-Beheic to Proto-Tim Ar-O
First lenition: *-p *-t̪ *-t *-tʲ {*-k,*-q} *-ʔ > *-β *-ð *-ɹ *-j *-ʁ *-ʔ / V _ {V,#}
Glottalic phonic forcing: *Vˀ > *V̀, thence > *hV if no onset, ʰV if *C(R)-, *R- > *F- (original *F unaffected)
The great vowel dispersal:
- *{a,ə} *ɨ > *a *ɨ / _ ʁ, ʁ _ (phonation maintained)
- *ʁ > *Ø / _ #
- In syllables having coda *-j-, the central vowels front to *ɛ *e *i; with coda *-β-, they round (and back) to *ɔ *o *u.
- Coda and intervocalic *β *j, once their effects have been transferred, disappear.
- Now the onsets. Palatal onsets produce the fronted outcomes; labial ones, the rounded (and backed) ones.
- *ə *ɨ > *a *i / {K,Q} (R) _ , _ (C) #
- *{ə,ɨ} > *e…kind of speaks for itself, really.
- *V0V0 > *V́0
- *V > *V́ / {[+asp],[+cont -son]} ([+son]) _
- [+asp] [+cont -son] > [-asp] [+son]
- *h > *Ø
To CT
Final stop loss: Nothing too fancy here—*S > [/i]Ø / _#[/i].
First spirantization: *S > F / _{j,i,u} except *ʔ.
Parasonorant high vowel deletion: [+syll +hi] > Ø/ _ R, R _.
7-to-5 vowel merger: *ɛ *e *ɔ *o > e i o u.
Second spirantization: This is a bit of a misnomer as nasals were affected too.
- [+syll +hi] > Ø / {C,V} V (C) (ʔ) _ #
- *N *S > S F / _ʔ
- *ɸ *θ *s *ɬ *ʃ *x *χ > u i i a i a a / ʔ _ #
- *ʔ > Ø
- [+bk +ro] > [-bk +fr] / j _
- [+fr -ro] > [-fr +bk] / β _
- *{β,j} > Ø / C _ {a,á}
- *β > Ø / _ [+fr +ro]
- *j > Ø / _ [+bk -ro]
- *β *j > p tʲ / _ V
- *V0V0 > V́
- [+syll +bk +ro] > [-bk +fr] / _ E
- *E > Ø / [+syll +fr +ro] _
- [+syll +fr -ro] > [-fr +bk] / _ B
- B] > Ø / [+syll +bk -ro]
- *l > ʕ
- *θ *ð *t̪ *n̪ > ɬ l t n
- *s *ʃ > θ s
- *nʲ *tʲ > n s
- *C > Ø / # p _ V
Stop lenition:
- *p *q > h x
- *t *k > ɹ ʕ / [+vc] _ {[+vc],#}
- *h > Ø / # S _
- [+syll +hi] > Ø / {V,C} F _ (not sure what I had in mind when I wrote that down but here it is)
Voicing rule: [-syll -vc] > [+vc] / [+vc] _ {[+vc],#} (*h exempted from this)
Needle clusters:
- *nt > ndɹ
- *θ *s *ɬ > d̪ð dz dɬ / {n,ɹ,l} _
- *Ø > s / t _ k, k _ t
[/list]
To PO
Thorns and palatals: *θ *ð were lost before a consonant and became h elsewhere; *t̪ *n̪ merged with plain ol’ t n, and all the palatals lenited to j.
Glottalic saps: *ʔB *ʔE > w j when following a vowel; initial *ʔV- sequences are lost thanks to the glottal stop spoiling the fun.
Glide fortition: *w *j *ʁ > *p *t *k in three environments: word-initially before another glide, following a word-initial glottal stop, or when geminate (i.e., like glides fortite the first).
*q who?: A merger of *q into k.
Terminal *-hV: *h + one of *u *ú *i *í becomes either of w j, as appropriate, word-finally.
Second tonogenesis:
- *V́ʔ *Vʔ > *V̂ *V̀
- *V (any tone) > *V̄ / [+syll] _
- *B *A *E > *w *ʁ *j / _ [+syll]
- *ww *ʁʁ *jj > *w *ʁ *j / #C_
Loss of harmonic postglottal vocoids: This is just a fancy way of saying that when you have *-ʔji *-ʔwu (in all tones), it goes poof. gone.
Reassignment of neutral tone: The tone system, much like Mandarin, has four tones plus a “neutral” tone (heretofore denoted by its lack of a diacritic3); the neutral tone got reassigned. The neutral tone became circumflex except in three environments—
- When the vowel in the next syllable carried a high tone, the neutral tone became high as well;
- When word-finally or immediately before a word-final nasal and the vowel in the penult was not low-tone, the vowel was lost entirely; and
- When word-final or preceding a word-final *w *j (not *ʁ) though), the vowel instead took the mid tone.
Mid-front mergers: The *ɛ vowel, in all its tones, raised to and merged with corresponding *e. All tones of *a became *ʁ when standing after *e.
Droppage of final -*ʔV: Final sequences of glottal stop plus any vowel drop.
Final-*is: *i in all tones becomes corresponding *e word-finally before a glottal stop (which then deletes).
Tone abandon: Tone was lost; if the vowel was low, mid, or circumflex and preceded a glide (i.e., one of *w *j *ʁ), it left behind a glottal stop.
Postglottalic glide fortition: The sequences *ʔw *ʔj *ʔʁ became *p *t *k; when one of *p *t *k + glide followed, the glottal stop instead became *w *j *ʁ, as appropriate.
*o fortuna: Before *e, the sequences *jo *ju became *j *w. Remaining *jo became *ja instead; the leftover *o merged with *u.
Lambda loss: *l became *nt when intervocalic and *n elsewhere.
*e-ncore: Initial *eC- sequences metathesized, with the resulting *-eV- sequence changing the latter element to its corresponding glide. Additionally, word-initially or after a word-initial consonant, *-ee- sequences become *-je-.
Loss of initial prelaryngeal vowels: *V0- > *Ø / # _ h V0.
PO allophonic processes: The synchrony of Proto-O.
- *-p *-t *-k > *-f *-s *-x
- *p *t *k > *pf *ts *kx / _{j,i}
- *n > *m / _pf
- *n > *ŋ / _kx
- *t > *d / n_{R,V,#}
- *np *ng > *mb *ŋg / when not _{f,x}
- *aG- > *ʁa-
- *a > *ʁ / _e
- *ʁ > *k / _ʁ
- Brassica is awesome. bradrn, thank you so much for this tool, and for sharing it with us.
- In-universe.
- Which makes writing about the vowel all at once tricky.
Re: Twin Aster
I just wanted to say, I've been enjoying seeing you gradually work out how to make this family work, and replacing and moving bits between revisions, and this installment is no exception.
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Re: Twin Aster
Thank you for the compliment! Now I’ll have to find the time to read this post…Man in Space wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2026 8:56 pm Brassica is awesome. bradrn, thank you so much for this tool, and for sharing it with us.
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
Working on Vyʌic1 because Proto-Vyʌic to Archaic Vyʌ isn’t really too involved in Brassica.
*kirja > kryá [kɾjá] ‘soul, essence’
*krija > krya [kɾja] ‘apricot’
*əwjə > vyʌ́ [vjə́] ‘plain, foothills, piedmont’
*ə~əwjə > Vyʌ [vjə] ‘Vyʌ Mountains’
*pʰa > phá [pʰá] ‘to twirl’
*pʰaa > pha [pʰa] ‘javelin, lance’
*kʰadʰwØ > khádh [kʰádʰ] ‘room, house’
*kʰa~kʰadʰwØ > khsadh [kʰsadʰ] ‘temple’
*kʰadʰwØki > khátk [kʰátk] ‘room.ACC’
*kʰa~kʰadʰwØki > khsatk [kʰsatk] ‘temple.ACC’
*digwə > dgvʌ́ [dgvə́] ‘man’
*gəfə > gvʌ [gvə]
---- The *K-irrealis
*pʰasra > phsrá [pʰsɾá] ‘do, act, take action’
*pʰkʰasra > phkhsa [pʰkʰsa] ‘would do’
*wəgi > wʌ́g [wə́g] ‘duplicate, multiply’
*gwəgi > gvʌ́g [gvə́g] ‘would increase’
*sikəra > síkʌra [síkəɾa] ‘eat’
*skjəra > ksyʌ́ra [ksjə́ɾa] ‘would eat’
*radgasraa > rdgásra [ɾdgásɾa] ‘nourish, feed’
*rgadgasraa > rgdasra [ɾgdasɾa] ‘would feed’
The irrealis involves metathesis a lot by analogy.
(C/u/i)C1C2á ~ (C/u/i)C2C1a
Insertion of /K/, y ~ r
*kʰisjə > khsyʌ́ [kʰsjə́] ‘quinoa’ (cf. ‘to eat’)
*sakjəra > skyʌ́ra [skjə́ra] ‘swallow’ (cf. ‘quinoa’/‘to eat’)
*kʰəjØsjə > khsyʌ [kʰsjə] ‘become’
*kʰrəjØsjə > khrsʌ [kʰɾsə] ‘become.PST’
*kʰsjə > ksyʌ́ [kʰsjə́] ‘change’
*kʰsirjə > khsrʌ [kʰsɾə] ‘change.PST’
*hsarig > sárig [sáɾig] ‘serve’
*hsadrig > sádrig [sádɾig] ‘serve.PST’
^^ leverage this to make a general past?
ġza
----
From our friends in southwestern Íröd: Ktrǽus /ktɾæ̰̰ʊs/. This proto is for the three landmasses between “island” and “continent” in the lower left of the map (they're more “island”-like in light of the size of the mainland, I guess).
Proto-Ktrǽus looked like this:
/*m *n *ŋ/ m n ng
/*p *t *k *ʔ/ p t k 2
/*h/ h
/*ɹ *j/ r y
/*l/ l
/*a *e *i *ə *ɨ *o *u/ a e i â ÿ o u
/*aː *əː *iː *uː/ á ý í ú
Syllable structure is strictly (C)V.
*yorutýrátile [joɹutəːɹaːtile]
> joɹtəːɹaːtle
> jottəːɹaːtle
> jottəːɹaːtɬe
> juttəːɹaːtɬe
> juttəːɹaːtɬi
> juʰtəːɹaːtɬi
> juʰtəjɹəjtɬi
> juʰtəɹɹəttɬi
> juʰtaɹɹattɬi
> juʰtɒɹɹættɬe
> juʰtɒdɹæʰtɬe
> jʊʰtɒdɹæʰtɬe yuhtådræhtle
*kirja > kryá [kɾjá] ‘soul, essence’
*krija > krya [kɾja] ‘apricot’
*əwjə > vyʌ́ [vjə́] ‘plain, foothills, piedmont’
*ə~əwjə > Vyʌ [vjə] ‘Vyʌ Mountains’
*pʰa > phá [pʰá] ‘to twirl’
*pʰaa > pha [pʰa] ‘javelin, lance’
*kʰadʰwØ > khádh [kʰádʰ] ‘room, house’
*kʰa~kʰadʰwØ > khsadh [kʰsadʰ] ‘temple’
*kʰadʰwØki > khátk [kʰátk] ‘room.ACC’
*kʰa~kʰadʰwØki > khsatk [kʰsatk] ‘temple.ACC’
*digwə > dgvʌ́ [dgvə́] ‘man’
*gəfə > gvʌ [gvə]
---- The *K-irrealis
*pʰasra > phsrá [pʰsɾá] ‘do, act, take action’
*pʰkʰasra > phkhsa [pʰkʰsa] ‘would do’
*wəgi > wʌ́g [wə́g] ‘duplicate, multiply’
*gwəgi > gvʌ́g [gvə́g] ‘would increase’
*sikəra > síkʌra [síkəɾa] ‘eat’
*skjəra > ksyʌ́ra [ksjə́ɾa] ‘would eat’
*radgasraa > rdgásra [ɾdgásɾa] ‘nourish, feed’
*rgadgasraa > rgdasra [ɾgdasɾa] ‘would feed’
The irrealis involves metathesis a lot by analogy.
(C/u/i)C1C2á ~ (C/u/i)C2C1a
Insertion of /K/, y ~ r
*kʰisjə > khsyʌ́ [kʰsjə́] ‘quinoa’ (cf. ‘to eat’)
*sakjəra > skyʌ́ra [skjə́ra] ‘swallow’ (cf. ‘quinoa’/‘to eat’)
*kʰəjØsjə > khsyʌ [kʰsjə] ‘become’
*kʰrəjØsjə > khrsʌ [kʰɾsə] ‘become.PST’
*kʰsjə > ksyʌ́ [kʰsjə́] ‘change’
*kʰsirjə > khsrʌ [kʰsɾə] ‘change.PST’
*hsarig > sárig [sáɾig] ‘serve’
*hsadrig > sádrig [sádɾig] ‘serve.PST’
^^ leverage this to make a general past?
ġza
----
From our friends in southwestern Íröd: Ktrǽus /ktɾæ̰̰ʊs/. This proto is for the three landmasses between “island” and “continent” in the lower left of the map (they're more “island”-like in light of the size of the mainland, I guess).
Proto-Ktrǽus looked like this:
/*m *n *ŋ/ m n ng
/*p *t *k *ʔ/ p t k 2
/*h/ h
/*ɹ *j/ r y
/*l/ l
/*a *e *i *ə *ɨ *o *u/ a e i â ÿ o u
/*aː *əː *iː *uː/ á ý í ú
Syllable structure is strictly (C)V.
*yorutýrátile [joɹutəːɹaːtile]
> joɹtəːɹaːtle
> jottəːɹaːtle
> jottəːɹaːtɬe
> juttəːɹaːtɬe
> juttəːɹaːtɬi
> juʰtəːɹaːtɬi
> juʰtəjɹəjtɬi
> juʰtəɹɹəttɬi
> juʰtaɹɹattɬi
> juʰtɒɹɹættɬe
> juʰtɒdɹæʰtɬe
> jʊʰtɒdɹæʰtɬe yuhtådræhtle
- Yes, I can’t decide on a romanization.
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
Bits and Bobs on Vyʌ
The AND-N construction
Archaïc Vyʌ inherited numerous words that were nominalized conjunction-noun (rarely -adjective, -adverb, or even -verb) constructions that often had a specifying effect on the referent.
*vi bitʲʰrəpri ‘and coal’ > vbitzrʌ́ps ‘coal, chip of refined coal, ingot of coal’
*vi dsirgʰə ‘and animal’ > vdzírghʌ ‘leather; meat’
*vi mikʰri ‘and cave’ > vmkhí ‘mine, quarry, well, mining site, reservoir, pool’
*vi piɢa ‘and (bird sp.)’ > vpiġa ‘epithet alleging the target lacks knowledge and common sense’
*vi qʰujgatʲʰa ‘and strength’ > vqhikhsa ‘talent, advantage, expertise, experience, knowledge, information as skill’
*vi tʲʰugədʲga ‘and animus/id’ > vsugʌdzgá ‘malevolent spiritual force/concept’ (pluralis tantum?)
Numbers
For Janko, of course.
The Vyʌ hail from under the Messerini line; that they practice Omaha kinship is hardly surprising. (Declensions subject to change depending on what metaänalysis turns up.)
bhghát, bhghád, bhghádyʌ, bhghat ‘sister, female parallel cousin’
dgsi, rgsdi, dgsyʌ, dgvsi ‘son’
dhíbha, dhibdá, dhíbayʌ, dhibháq ‘father; paternal male uncle, father’s brother’
dzrbʌu, dzrbʌbd, tsrupyʌ, dzrbʌpq ‘maternal aunt’
ġádh, ġásd, ġádhyʌ, ġatq ‘daughter’
ġʌ, ġʌġd, ġrvʌ, ġsʌrqs ‘grandfather’
kprʌ, gbrʌ, kprʌs, kprʌ́q ‘mother’s brother, maternal uncle; maternal male cross-cousin’
kyav, kyavd, kyavdyʌ, kyavq ‘brother, male parallel cousin’
phrʌ́ġa, phrʌ́uda, phrʌ́ġayʌ, phrʌġáiq ‘mother; maternal female cross-cousin’
tzrá, dzrda, tzráyʌ, tzráq ‘father, paternal uncle’
tzvákh, tzvágd, tzvákhyʌ, tzvaks ‘sister; female parallel cousin’
tzvʌ́kva, tzvʌ́kudna, tzvʌ́kvayʌ, tzvʌkváq ‘nephew; paternal male cross-cousin’
The AND-N construction
Archaïc Vyʌ inherited numerous words that were nominalized conjunction-noun (rarely -adjective, -adverb, or even -verb) constructions that often had a specifying effect on the referent.
*vi bitʲʰrəpri ‘and coal’ > vbitzrʌ́ps ‘coal, chip of refined coal, ingot of coal’
*vi dsirgʰə ‘and animal’ > vdzírghʌ ‘leather; meat’
*vi mikʰri ‘and cave’ > vmkhí ‘mine, quarry, well, mining site, reservoir, pool’
*vi piɢa ‘and (bird sp.)’ > vpiġa ‘epithet alleging the target lacks knowledge and common sense’
*vi qʰujgatʲʰa ‘and strength’ > vqhikhsa ‘talent, advantage, expertise, experience, knowledge, information as skill’
*vi tʲʰugədʲga ‘and animus/id’ > vsugʌdzgá ‘malevolent spiritual force/concept’ (pluralis tantum?)
Numbers
For Janko, of course.
- kúryʌ
- bhʌ́i
- qnráu
- dhisri
- vdhisri
- bhʌ́tsviu
- qnrávi
- dhísridhisri < ‘a great four’
- qnrávqnrav < ‘a great three’
- dhisbhʌ́tsviu < ‘four-six’
The Vyʌ hail from under the Messerini line; that they practice Omaha kinship is hardly surprising. (Declensions subject to change depending on what metaänalysis turns up.)
bhghát, bhghád, bhghádyʌ, bhghat ‘sister, female parallel cousin’
dgsi, rgsdi, dgsyʌ, dgvsi ‘son’
dhíbha, dhibdá, dhíbayʌ, dhibháq ‘father; paternal male uncle, father’s brother’
dzrbʌu, dzrbʌbd, tsrupyʌ, dzrbʌpq ‘maternal aunt’
ġádh, ġásd, ġádhyʌ, ġatq ‘daughter’
ġʌ, ġʌġd, ġrvʌ, ġsʌrqs ‘grandfather’
kprʌ, gbrʌ, kprʌs, kprʌ́q ‘mother’s brother, maternal uncle; maternal male cross-cousin’
kyav, kyavd, kyavdyʌ, kyavq ‘brother, male parallel cousin’
phrʌ́ġa, phrʌ́uda, phrʌ́ġayʌ, phrʌġáiq ‘mother; maternal female cross-cousin’
tzrá, dzrda, tzráyʌ, tzráq ‘father, paternal uncle’
tzvákh, tzvágd, tzvákhyʌ, tzvaks ‘sister; female parallel cousin’
tzvʌ́kva, tzvʌ́kudna, tzvʌ́kvayʌ, tzvʌkváq ‘nephew; paternal male cross-cousin’
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
I was working on getting measurements of things on Íröd, and through GPlates, I found that the Burning Mountains are over 25’000 kilometers long. (It tells me 26’441.4623 km specifically.)
It also seems that the Burning Mountains are a subduction zone, eating the plate to the south (for which some of the elevation difference is the upper end of the craton, since it’s getting overtaken by the northern plate.
It also seems that the Burning Mountains are a subduction zone, eating the plate to the south (for which some of the elevation difference is the upper end of the craton, since it’s getting overtaken by the northern plate.
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
I had a large post that apparently got eaten.
Notes on Proto-Waqwaq/Proto-Wekoq
Phonology
The voiceless diacritic under a voiced sound indicates slack voice. This is the protolanguage phonology.
/m m̥ n n̥ ŋ ŋ̊/
/p pʰ b b̥ t tʰ d d̥ k kʰ g g̊ q qʰ ɢ ɢ̥/
/s x h/
/ʜ ʢ/
/w l/
/u uˤ o oˤ a aˤ e eˤ i iˤ/
Syllable structure: (C)(w)V(X), where X is:
The speakers of this group called themselves *Wekoq (*we-k-oq), roughly speaking "people of the hills" (*we- collective prefix + *k- demonym + oq 'hill').
Nouns
There are 16 noun classes:
The fabric-like noun class covers some concepts that speakers of English might not consider fabrics, such as *m̥iˤ-n̥apʰeˤd 'tide' and *m̥iˤ-miˤn̥ 'sea-foam'.
Numbers
Numbers one through six:
This language does not make a distinction between number in the second- and third-person pronouns.
*n̥waˤ 1SG
*b̥wo 1PL
*qeˤn̥oˤ 2
*g̊o 3
Word order
Proto-Wekoq uses OSV word order.
*ʢekoq qeˤn̥oˤ qeˤ
ʢe-k-oq qeˤn̥oˤ qeˤ
ANIM.SG-demonym-river 2 be
'you are Wekoq'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o gin̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o gi-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PST-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he used to live by the Great River'
Despite the word order, adjectives tend to come after the nouns they modify.
Polar questions
The question particle *de occurs at the end of the sentence:
*ʢekoq qeˤn̥oˤ qeˤ de
ʢe-k-oq qeˤn̥oˤ qeˤ de
ANIM.SG-demonym-river 2 be Q
'are you Wekoq?'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o gin̥in̥wiˤ de
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o gi-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ de
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PST-INCOMPL-live.somewhere Q
'did he used to live by the Great River?'
Verbs
Completives and incompletives
The default form of a verb is the incompletive. The incompletive is also the only form of a verb that can be negated (see below).
*g̊o n̥waˤ n̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ Ø-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 INCOMPL-put.down.fabric
'I am putting it (the fabric) down'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o n̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he lives by the Great River'
The completive is indicated by a prefix *-maqʰ-.
*g̊o n̥waˤ maqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I have put it (the fabric) down'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o maqʰn̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o maqʰ-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 COMPL-live.somewhere
'he no longer lives by the Great River'
Tense
There are four tenses: *gi- PAST, *Ø- PRESENT, *aˤ- PERSISTIVE, and *ʢi- FUTURE.
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o gin̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o gin̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PST-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he used to by the Great River'/'he was living by the Great River'
*g̊o n̥waˤ gimaqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 PST-COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I put it (the fabric) down'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o n̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o Ø-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PRES-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he no longer lives by the Great River'
*g̊o n̥waˤ maqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ Ø-maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 PRES-COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I have put it (the fabric) down'/'I just put it down'/'I am finished putting it down'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o aˤn̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o aˤ-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PERSISTIVE-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he still lives by the Great River'
*g̊o n̥waˤ aˤmaqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ aˤ-maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 PERSISTIVE-COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I put it (the fabric) down (emphatic)'/'I am finished putting it down (emphatic)'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o ʢin̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o ʢi-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 FUT-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he will live by the Great River'
*g̊o n̥waˤ ʢimaqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ ʢi-maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 FUT-COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I will have put it (the fabric) down'
The persistive tense is not typically used with completives; when it is, it adds further emphasis to the fact that the action of the verb is no longer occurring.
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o aˤmaqʰn̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o aˤ-maqʰ-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PERSISTIVE-COMPL-live.somewhere
'he no longer lives by the Great River (emphatic)'
Negation
There are two types of negative morpheme in Proto-Wekoq: The negative particle bu and the negative prefix miˤ-. Unfortunately (for me and everybody else), which verb takes which is semantically governed. The verb *qeˤ 'be', for instance, uses the negative prefix:
*ʢekoq qeˤn̥oˤ miˤqeˤ
ʢe-k-oq qeˤn̥oˤ Ø-miˤ-qeˤ
ANIM.SG-demonym-river 2 INCOMPL-NEG-be
'you are not Wekoq'
The verb *m̥iˤb̥oˤs 'fasten', on the other hand, uses the postverbal particle *bu:
*go qeˤn̥oˤ gim̥iˤb̥oˤs bu
go qeˤn̥oˤ gi-Ø-m̥iˤb̥oˤs bu
3 2 PST-INCOMPL-fasten NEG
'you didn't fasten it'
Negatives can only negate verbs that are not in the completive aspect.
The verbs that take the negative prefix tend to denote relatively "common" actions. The list below may be expanded later.
To introduce a relative clause, there is a general structure of classifier + relative. For singular nouns, the relative form is *biˤl; for plural (or mass) referents, it is *kʰeˤtʰin.
The following are the classifiers:
*d̥waˤw Animate
*qʰeˤn̥ Body parts
*xu Weather terms
*saˤ Liquids and gases
*ʜiˤ Long, thin objects
*iˤ Small, round objects
*aˤw Fabric-like objects
*oˤʢ Abstract countable
*do Abstract uncountable
*tʰi Tools
*aˤd̥ Mass nouns and collectives
*sekʰ Miscellaneous
*d̥waˤw n̥waˤ biˤl gimaqʰwaˤʜiˤŋ̊ ʢeŋ̊d̥aw n̥waˤ gimaqʰikʰtʰin
d̥waˤw n̥waˤ biˤl gi-maqʰ-waˤʜiˤŋ̊ ʢe-ŋ̊d̥aw n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-kʰtʰin
CLS.ANIM 1.SG REL.SG PST-COMPL-betray ANIM-male.person 1.SG PST-COMPL-see
'I saw the man who betrayed me'
*d̥waˤw biˤl g̊o gimaqʰwaˤʜiˤŋ̊ ʢeŋ̊d̥aw n̥aiˤʢon̥aiˤʢo
d̥waˤw biˤl g̊o gi-maqʰ-waˤʜiˤŋ̊ ʢe-ŋ̊d̥aw n̥aiˤʢo~n̥aiˤʢo
CLS.ANIM REL.SG 3 PST-COMPL-betray ANIM-male.person IMP~not.kill
'spare the man whom he betrayed!'
*qʰeˤn̥ biˤl n̥waˤ gimaqʰswoˤs eˤn̥-du aˤxamxam
qʰeˤn̥ g̊o n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-swoˤs eˤn̥-du aˤ-Ø-xamxam
CLS.body.part REL.SG 1 PST-COMPL-damage body.part-tooth persistive-INCOMPL-move.side.to.side
'the tooth I chipped is still loose'
*iˤ biˤl n̥waˤ gimaqʰtʰaw iˤstem sikʰ n̥waˤ gimaqʰpʰoˤloˤl
iˤ biˤl n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-tʰaw iˤ-stem sikʰ n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-pʰoˤloˤl
CLS.small.round REL.SG 1 PST-COMPL-throw small.round-stone to 1 PST-COMPL-return
'the pebble I threw fell back down to me'
*iˤ kʰeˤtʰin n̥waˤ gimaqʰtʰaw b̥istem sikʰ n̥waˤ gimaqʰpʰoˤloˤl
iˤ kʰeˤtʰin n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-tʰaw b̥i-stem sikʰ n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-pʰoˤloˤl
CLS.small.round REL.PL 1 PST-COMPL-throw small.round.PL-stone to 1 PST-COMPL-return
'the pebbles I threw fell back down to me'
Reduplication
Mary Niepokuj's 1991 thesis "The Historical Development of Reduplication, with Special Reference to Indo-European" gave me the idea for incorporating reduplication into Waqwaq.
Verbs will involve full reduplication. This stems from colloquial repetition of imperatives which was generalized into the marker for the imperative.
*ŋak 'eat' (root, original imperative form)
*ŋak ŋak 'eat, eat!' > *ŋakŋak 'eat!'
*mwed 'sleep' (root, original imperative form)
*mwed mwed 'sleep, sleep!' > *mwedmwed 'sleep!'
Nouns, on the other hand, exhibit partial reduplication. This started as the use of an echo word to denote contrastive focus (Wikipedia gives the example of "cheesecake" vs. "CAKE-cake"), which then was generalized into a sense of genuineness, then finally into a definite marker. Proto-Wekoq stress, which Waqwaq retains (at least in the Classical era), was on the first syllable; the first iambic foot of a word (or the entire word in the case of words of only one or two syllables) was reduplicated and prefixed.
*n̥o-ʢeˤt 'ice storm'
*n̥oʢeˤt n̥oʢeˤt 'a true sunny day, a really sunny day' > 'a genuine sunny day' > *n̥oʢeˤtn̥oʢeˤt 'the sunny day'
*n̥o-n̥eˤm̥wiˤ 'ice storm'
*n̥o-n̥eˤn̥o-n̥eˤm̥wiˤ 'a true ice storm, a severe ice storm' > 'a genuine ice storm' > *n̥on̥eˤn̥on̥eˤm̥wiˤ 'the ice storm'
In either case, this process is shown in the Waqwaq logograms as repeating the appropriate character.
The name of the people themselves, Waqwaq, will eventually fall victim to reanalysis, with the first syllable being analyzed as a reduplicant. A root -q will be derived, meaning something like "we the people".
Logography
Because for some reason my ideas wanted me to dump even more work on myself, I've decided to make another logography, though technically this is for one of the descendant languages (Waqwaq). I'll admit I mostly started with the logograms rather than the actual in-language words. The process for this language, unlike the Caber logograms, is based off redditor /u/yaesen's guide for creating ideograms. In the third image below you can see the forty-two primitives I use. The majority of the glyphs are made using a 2x3 grid of primitives.
And the obligatory Seven Kill Stele:
Data for zompist's gen
Notes on Proto-Waqwaq/Proto-Wekoq
Phonology
The voiceless diacritic under a voiced sound indicates slack voice. This is the protolanguage phonology.
/m m̥ n n̥ ŋ ŋ̊/
/p pʰ b b̥ t tʰ d d̥ k kʰ g g̊ q qʰ ɢ ɢ̥/
/s x h/
/ʜ ʢ/
/w l/
/u uˤ o oˤ a aˤ e eˤ i iˤ/
Syllable structure: (C)(w)V(X), where X is:
- any nasal;
- any non-labial plosive;
- one of *s *x;
- *l; or
- a trill.
The speakers of this group called themselves *Wekoq (*we-k-oq), roughly speaking "people of the hills" (*we- collective prefix + *k- demonym + oq 'hill').
Nouns
There are 16 noun classes:
- *ʢe- Animate
- *eˤn̥- Body parts
- *n̥o- Weather terms
- *aˤ- Liquids and gases
- *ʜ(i)- Long, thin objects
- *iˤ- Small, round objects
- *m̥iˤ- Fabric-like objects
- *oˤ- Abstract countable
- *ɢ̥(i)- Abstract uncountable
- *atʰ- Tools
- *we- Mass nouns and collectives
- *Ø- Miscellaneous
- *ɢoˤ- Plural of classes 1, 2, and 7
- *ŋapʰ- Plural of classes 5 and 10
- *b̥i- Plural of class 6
- *d(i)- Plural of classes 8 and 12
The fabric-like noun class covers some concepts that speakers of English might not consider fabrics, such as *m̥iˤ-n̥apʰeˤd 'tide' and *m̥iˤ-miˤn̥ 'sea-foam'.
Numbers
Numbers one through six:
- qiˤd
- eɢ̥e
- gwas
- wiˤqʰin̥
- xweˤs
- ʢwos
- 36. wig̊eˤn̥
- 216. huˤʢu
This language does not make a distinction between number in the second- and third-person pronouns.
*n̥waˤ 1SG
*b̥wo 1PL
*qeˤn̥oˤ 2
*g̊o 3
Word order
Proto-Wekoq uses OSV word order.
*ʢekoq qeˤn̥oˤ qeˤ
ʢe-k-oq qeˤn̥oˤ qeˤ
ANIM.SG-demonym-river 2 be
'you are Wekoq'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o gin̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o gi-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PST-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he used to live by the Great River'
Despite the word order, adjectives tend to come after the nouns they modify.
Polar questions
The question particle *de occurs at the end of the sentence:
*ʢekoq qeˤn̥oˤ qeˤ de
ʢe-k-oq qeˤn̥oˤ qeˤ de
ANIM.SG-demonym-river 2 be Q
'are you Wekoq?'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o gin̥in̥wiˤ de
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o gi-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ de
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PST-INCOMPL-live.somewhere Q
'did he used to live by the Great River?'
Verbs
Completives and incompletives
The default form of a verb is the incompletive. The incompletive is also the only form of a verb that can be negated (see below).
*g̊o n̥waˤ n̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ Ø-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 INCOMPL-put.down.fabric
'I am putting it (the fabric) down'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o n̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he lives by the Great River'
The completive is indicated by a prefix *-maqʰ-.
*g̊o n̥waˤ maqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I have put it (the fabric) down'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o maqʰn̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o maqʰ-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 COMPL-live.somewhere
'he no longer lives by the Great River'
Tense
There are four tenses: *gi- PAST, *Ø- PRESENT, *aˤ- PERSISTIVE, and *ʢi- FUTURE.
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o gin̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o gin̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PST-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he used to by the Great River'/'he was living by the Great River'
*g̊o n̥waˤ gimaqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 PST-COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I put it (the fabric) down'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o n̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o Ø-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PRES-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he no longer lives by the Great River'
*g̊o n̥waˤ maqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ Ø-maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 PRES-COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I have put it (the fabric) down'/'I just put it down'/'I am finished putting it down'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o aˤn̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o aˤ-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PERSISTIVE-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he still lives by the Great River'
*g̊o n̥waˤ aˤmaqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ aˤ-maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 PERSISTIVE-COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I put it (the fabric) down (emphatic)'/'I am finished putting it down (emphatic)'
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o ʢin̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o ʢi-Ø-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 FUT-INCOMPL-live.somewhere
'he will live by the Great River'
*g̊o n̥waˤ ʢimaqʰn̥uˤŋ
g̊o n̥waˤ ʢi-maqʰ-n̥uˤŋ
3 1 FUT-COMPL-put.down.fabric
'I will have put it (the fabric) down'
The persistive tense is not typically used with completives; when it is, it adds further emphasis to the fact that the action of the verb is no longer occurring.
*ʜoq ʜig̊ahaʢ g̊o aˤmaqʰn̥in̥wiˤ
ʜ-oq ʜ-g̊ahaʢ g̊o aˤ-maqʰ-n̥in̥wiˤ
long.thin-river long.thin-great 3 PERSISTIVE-COMPL-live.somewhere
'he no longer lives by the Great River (emphatic)'
Negation
There are two types of negative morpheme in Proto-Wekoq: The negative particle bu and the negative prefix miˤ-. Unfortunately (for me and everybody else), which verb takes which is semantically governed. The verb *qeˤ 'be', for instance, uses the negative prefix:
*ʢekoq qeˤn̥oˤ miˤqeˤ
ʢe-k-oq qeˤn̥oˤ Ø-miˤ-qeˤ
ANIM.SG-demonym-river 2 INCOMPL-NEG-be
'you are not Wekoq'
The verb *m̥iˤb̥oˤs 'fasten', on the other hand, uses the postverbal particle *bu:
*go qeˤn̥oˤ gim̥iˤb̥oˤs bu
go qeˤn̥oˤ gi-Ø-m̥iˤb̥oˤs bu
3 2 PST-INCOMPL-fasten NEG
'you didn't fasten it'
Negatives can only negate verbs that are not in the completive aspect.
The verbs that take the negative prefix tend to denote relatively "common" actions. The list below may be expanded later.
- *qeˤ 'be'
- *n̥iˤkʰ 'pick up (a long, thin object)'
- *xeˤ 'pick up (a small, round object)'
- *ɢ̥aˤ 'pick up (a fabric-like object)'
- *seˤ 'pick up (other objects)'
- *n̥wiˤ 'hold, carry (a long, thin object)'
- *mweˤ 'hold, carry (a small, round object)'
- *kʰaˤ 'hold, carry (a fabric-like object)'
- *an̥ 'hold, carry (other objects)'
- *ʢiˤ 'have, possess (a long, thin object)'
- *m̥ad 'have, possess (a small, round object)'
- *ŋ̊wuˤ 'have, possess (a fabric-like object)'
- *ʢwad̥we 'have, possess (other objects)'
- *kʰe 'put down (a long, thin object)'
- *woˤ 'put down (a small, round object)'
- *n̥uˤŋ 'put down (a fabric-like object)'
- *ʢoˤ 'put down (other objects)'
- *g̊waˤn̥ 'begin (something)'
- *pʰwe 'end (something)'
- *ŋak 'eat, drink'
- *mwed 'sleep'
- *n̥eˤn 'live'
- *n̥in̥wiˤ 'live (somewhere)'
- *kʰwes 'die'
- *aʢ 'sow a field'
- *mud̥ 'plow a field'
- *meˤg̊uˤ 'harvest'
- *m̥wiˤn̥ 'sing'
- *qiˤŋwo 'think (that)'
- *e 'apologize'
- *uˤŋ̊qeˤ 'speak, say'
- *iˤŋ̊ 'argue'
- *n̥weˤd 'do work'
- *n̥wa 'play'
- *eˤŋ 'run' ~ *woˤn̥wiˤm̥ 'not run'
- *b̥oˤtqwuˤn̥ 'travel by boat' ~ *ʢwiˤtwe 'not travel by boat'
- *n̥ekʰwu 'kill' ~ *n̥aiˤʢo 'not kill'
- *waˤʜiˤŋ̊ 'betray' ~ *ʜang̊iˤ 'not betray'
To introduce a relative clause, there is a general structure of classifier + relative. For singular nouns, the relative form is *biˤl; for plural (or mass) referents, it is *kʰeˤtʰin.
The following are the classifiers:
*d̥waˤw Animate
*qʰeˤn̥ Body parts
*xu Weather terms
*saˤ Liquids and gases
*ʜiˤ Long, thin objects
*iˤ Small, round objects
*aˤw Fabric-like objects
*oˤʢ Abstract countable
*do Abstract uncountable
*tʰi Tools
*aˤd̥ Mass nouns and collectives
*sekʰ Miscellaneous
*d̥waˤw n̥waˤ biˤl gimaqʰwaˤʜiˤŋ̊ ʢeŋ̊d̥aw n̥waˤ gimaqʰikʰtʰin
d̥waˤw n̥waˤ biˤl gi-maqʰ-waˤʜiˤŋ̊ ʢe-ŋ̊d̥aw n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-kʰtʰin
CLS.ANIM 1.SG REL.SG PST-COMPL-betray ANIM-male.person 1.SG PST-COMPL-see
'I saw the man who betrayed me'
*d̥waˤw biˤl g̊o gimaqʰwaˤʜiˤŋ̊ ʢeŋ̊d̥aw n̥aiˤʢon̥aiˤʢo
d̥waˤw biˤl g̊o gi-maqʰ-waˤʜiˤŋ̊ ʢe-ŋ̊d̥aw n̥aiˤʢo~n̥aiˤʢo
CLS.ANIM REL.SG 3 PST-COMPL-betray ANIM-male.person IMP~not.kill
'spare the man whom he betrayed!'
*qʰeˤn̥ biˤl n̥waˤ gimaqʰswoˤs eˤn̥-du aˤxamxam
qʰeˤn̥ g̊o n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-swoˤs eˤn̥-du aˤ-Ø-xamxam
CLS.body.part REL.SG 1 PST-COMPL-damage body.part-tooth persistive-INCOMPL-move.side.to.side
'the tooth I chipped is still loose'
*iˤ biˤl n̥waˤ gimaqʰtʰaw iˤstem sikʰ n̥waˤ gimaqʰpʰoˤloˤl
iˤ biˤl n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-tʰaw iˤ-stem sikʰ n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-pʰoˤloˤl
CLS.small.round REL.SG 1 PST-COMPL-throw small.round-stone to 1 PST-COMPL-return
'the pebble I threw fell back down to me'
*iˤ kʰeˤtʰin n̥waˤ gimaqʰtʰaw b̥istem sikʰ n̥waˤ gimaqʰpʰoˤloˤl
iˤ kʰeˤtʰin n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-tʰaw b̥i-stem sikʰ n̥waˤ gi-maqʰ-pʰoˤloˤl
CLS.small.round REL.PL 1 PST-COMPL-throw small.round.PL-stone to 1 PST-COMPL-return
'the pebbles I threw fell back down to me'
Reduplication
Mary Niepokuj's 1991 thesis "The Historical Development of Reduplication, with Special Reference to Indo-European" gave me the idea for incorporating reduplication into Waqwaq.
Verbs will involve full reduplication. This stems from colloquial repetition of imperatives which was generalized into the marker for the imperative.
*ŋak 'eat' (root, original imperative form)
*ŋak ŋak 'eat, eat!' > *ŋakŋak 'eat!'
*mwed 'sleep' (root, original imperative form)
*mwed mwed 'sleep, sleep!' > *mwedmwed 'sleep!'
Nouns, on the other hand, exhibit partial reduplication. This started as the use of an echo word to denote contrastive focus (Wikipedia gives the example of "cheesecake" vs. "CAKE-cake"), which then was generalized into a sense of genuineness, then finally into a definite marker. Proto-Wekoq stress, which Waqwaq retains (at least in the Classical era), was on the first syllable; the first iambic foot of a word (or the entire word in the case of words of only one or two syllables) was reduplicated and prefixed.
*n̥o-ʢeˤt 'ice storm'
*n̥oʢeˤt n̥oʢeˤt 'a true sunny day, a really sunny day' > 'a genuine sunny day' > *n̥oʢeˤtn̥oʢeˤt 'the sunny day'
*n̥o-n̥eˤm̥wiˤ 'ice storm'
*n̥o-n̥eˤn̥o-n̥eˤm̥wiˤ 'a true ice storm, a severe ice storm' > 'a genuine ice storm' > *n̥on̥eˤn̥on̥eˤm̥wiˤ 'the ice storm'
In either case, this process is shown in the Waqwaq logograms as repeating the appropriate character.
The name of the people themselves, Waqwaq, will eventually fall victim to reanalysis, with the first syllable being analyzed as a reduplicant. A root -q will be derived, meaning something like "we the people".
Logography
Because for some reason my ideas wanted me to dump even more work on myself, I've decided to make another logography, though technically this is for one of the descendant languages (Waqwaq). I'll admit I mostly started with the logograms rather than the actual in-language words. The process for this language, unlike the Caber logograms, is based off redditor /u/yaesen's guide for creating ideograms. In the third image below you can see the forty-two primitives I use. The majority of the glyphs are made using a 2x3 grid of primitives.
More: show
And the obligatory Seven Kill Stele:
Data for zompist's gen
More: show
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
I have previously remarked on the five canonical innovations of the written word on Íröd; here they are:
- The Caber, western Maranhír, XXI C. BC
- The Waqwaq, southeastern Tethír, mid XX C. BC
- In Gand, eastern Maranhír and extreme northern Tethír, late XX – early XIX C. BC
- The North Slope cultural complex (NSCC), Maranhír, early XIX C. BC
- In Tamahír, late XVIII – early XVII C. BC
- The Caber are the OGs. Many languages on Íröd use some variation on or system heavily influenced by the qan van.
- The Waqwaq are a people on whom (and on whose language) I’ve worked out precious little. They are nonetheless of great import as, in Tethír, they were the first and theirs was the system that influenced the others nearby.
- Gand is a lowland area in northeastern Íar1, nestled in the Burning Mountains. It was originally developed for Vyeic and went on from there.
- The NSCC is the chicken-and-egg morass in which the Tim Ar and Khaya developed. No one's sure who drew first. The Khaya glyphs are flagrant and flamboyant; the Tim Ar had no fewer than four different kinds of writing that were called the Höhsë ü ğûrn Ahsaha ‘four modes of writing’, grouped into two pairs called eastalri (sg. ğestalri) ‘pairs’:
- Ğestalri ĝ gisí (image-based)
- Sasaha n orón ‘color mode’, an Aztec-esque colorful pictography system
- Sasaha m'agneg ‘hieroglyphic mode’, more akin to Egyptian-style hieroglyphs
- Ğestalri n oisoğ (cuneiform-based)
- Sasaha n Atki ‘Atskian mode’, a workhorse cuneiform script
- Sasaha n Lemhár ‘Levarian mode’, a much more frilly, ornate, distinctive take on cuneiform (IRL inspired by nastaliq)
- Ğestalri ĝ gisí (image-based)
- The Tamahír situation is, I think, pretty unique and interesting. Tamahír primarily comprises three landmasses of appreciable size (though the central one is far larger than the other two). There were, at the start, a trio of unrelated languages spoken there, one for each people cluster. Eventually the landmasses all got consolidated under one rule and, following the development of a pidgin, a creole emerged. Their writing system was originally for the creole, not any of the earlier languages, and was then adapted.
--------
- What the supercontinent comprising Maranhír, Tethír, and Sêmásał is called when referring to it as a monoëntity.
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
In both the polar regions of Íröd, there is a marked tendency for a taboo to exist around black plants—it is considered a grievous sin to damage or harm one. It is likely related to the properties of these plants as heat sinks—they absorb energy during the day and radiate it during the night, and this on top of the tendency of black plants to naturally have temperatures higher than ambient by themselves.
-
Man in Space
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am
Re: Twin Aster
I believe I've posted elsewhere on this, but the Caber generally tend to accord the Oqsh with a great respect. Part of this is, obviously, the Caber cultural conceit that a weak stomach is preferable to a strong one (i.e., if you can stomach truly terrible deeds, you are suspect) intersecting with the trope of the nauseated rad-priest vomiting due to exposure to the natural feedwaters or whatever else needed tending down there.
The rad-priests have a long and storied history. They were, and are, the ones who had to deal with and manage the natural reactors. Nowadays, at least, they are trained to be proficient in chemistry, radiation science, physics, basic medical training, geology, relevant engineering skills, and astronomy in addition to actual training and experience managing reactors (be they natural or artificial). This has historically been the case; the rad-priests encouraged scientific and philosophical inquiry--all the better to understand this powerful yet dangerous thing that is in our charge. The numbers of rad-priests have gradually grown over time; the caretaker orders are generally full with a waitlist, so the other rad-priests who aren't out proselytizing or watching over a "see" (q.v.) often find jobs as nuclear engineers, radiation experts or consultants, physicists, geneticists, geologists and geoengineers (including research and operations relating to the Magmadrome), engineers generally, lexicographers, and household contaminant sweepers (they started with radon screening and expanded out from there).
The aegis of the Oqshite religion is that they have taken the liberty of strong-arming basically everyone to allow their rad-priests to audit nuclear facilities, be they the mostly cold tralphium fusion process, an old-fashioned atomic pile, a full-on fission reactor for the sophisticated consumer...any commercial nuclear-driven op. As a result, there are a number of "sees" or "parishes" in which a given rad-priest basically is responsible for all the reactors in said area, kind of like if there was a Roman Catholic Church but for engineering and power.
Oqsh itself was a microstate of unusual nature and stature. Due to its location within a long, wide vale and local tectonic histories and conditions, there were some natural reactors (like the ones reported at Oklo1). The local feature in which Oqsh lies is a somewhat uneven plateau that originally had a magma source below it; tectonic activity drained it and half the plateau collapsed. Thanks to tectonics, the crust that makes up the Oqsh realm had a lot of incongruities, caverns, cave systems, voids, and resources (especially metals) that were left over from their upwelling and crustal turnover. Certain Oqshite black plants have an interesting, and highly useful, property: exposure to radiation above certain levels will cause the plants to start to blanch. As a result, there are strategically placed gardens where such black plants are cultivated, and these are monitored for their coloration--if they turn white it's time to de-ass the area with a quickness. Cultivars of these plants do see use in radiation detection generally and, with considerable frequency, are essentially used as natural dosimeters.
The Oqsh have long had a cultural tradition of leaden garments. This goes back pretty much as far as recorded history remembers them. Whether they happened to blunder into it or learnt by trial and error is anyone's guess. Cataracts are common in clergy, as is some form of radiation sickness on at least an intermittent basis, which includes the vomiting. From a genetic standpoint, the Oqsh do have somewhat more resistance to/tolerance for radiation exposure than other adasar (not immune to it by any means but they can take nontrivially more than most baseline dahsar populations). There's also some evidence that the Oqshite population was more resistant to the Violet Death than everyone else.
The natural reactors were harnessed back in the day for massive engineering projects, the steam from the reactors being employed to operate massive pumps, gears, turnstiles, whatever in order to effect the smooth movement of massive stoneworks, earthworks, and the like.
----
The rad-priests have a long and storied history. They were, and are, the ones who had to deal with and manage the natural reactors. Nowadays, at least, they are trained to be proficient in chemistry, radiation science, physics, basic medical training, geology, relevant engineering skills, and astronomy in addition to actual training and experience managing reactors (be they natural or artificial). This has historically been the case; the rad-priests encouraged scientific and philosophical inquiry--all the better to understand this powerful yet dangerous thing that is in our charge. The numbers of rad-priests have gradually grown over time; the caretaker orders are generally full with a waitlist, so the other rad-priests who aren't out proselytizing or watching over a "see" (q.v.) often find jobs as nuclear engineers, radiation experts or consultants, physicists, geneticists, geologists and geoengineers (including research and operations relating to the Magmadrome), engineers generally, lexicographers, and household contaminant sweepers (they started with radon screening and expanded out from there).
The aegis of the Oqshite religion is that they have taken the liberty of strong-arming basically everyone to allow their rad-priests to audit nuclear facilities, be they the mostly cold tralphium fusion process, an old-fashioned atomic pile, a full-on fission reactor for the sophisticated consumer...any commercial nuclear-driven op. As a result, there are a number of "sees" or "parishes" in which a given rad-priest basically is responsible for all the reactors in said area, kind of like if there was a Roman Catholic Church but for engineering and power.
Oqsh itself was a microstate of unusual nature and stature. Due to its location within a long, wide vale and local tectonic histories and conditions, there were some natural reactors (like the ones reported at Oklo1). The local feature in which Oqsh lies is a somewhat uneven plateau that originally had a magma source below it; tectonic activity drained it and half the plateau collapsed. Thanks to tectonics, the crust that makes up the Oqsh realm had a lot of incongruities, caverns, cave systems, voids, and resources (especially metals) that were left over from their upwelling and crustal turnover. Certain Oqshite black plants have an interesting, and highly useful, property: exposure to radiation above certain levels will cause the plants to start to blanch. As a result, there are strategically placed gardens where such black plants are cultivated, and these are monitored for their coloration--if they turn white it's time to de-ass the area with a quickness. Cultivars of these plants do see use in radiation detection generally and, with considerable frequency, are essentially used as natural dosimeters.
The Oqsh have long had a cultural tradition of leaden garments. This goes back pretty much as far as recorded history remembers them. Whether they happened to blunder into it or learnt by trial and error is anyone's guess. Cataracts are common in clergy, as is some form of radiation sickness on at least an intermittent basis, which includes the vomiting. From a genetic standpoint, the Oqsh do have somewhat more resistance to/tolerance for radiation exposure than other adasar (not immune to it by any means but they can take nontrivially more than most baseline dahsar populations). There's also some evidence that the Oqshite population was more resistant to the Violet Death than everyone else.
The natural reactors were harnessed back in the day for massive engineering projects, the steam from the reactors being employed to operate massive pumps, gears, turnstiles, whatever in order to effect the smooth movement of massive stoneworks, earthworks, and the like.
----
- No, the phonetic shape of the name came well before the rad-priests, or even Oqsh as anything but a xenophobic microstate with leader worship (or close to it).