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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:43 pm
by azhong
(Edit (after I read Travis's post): bedeutet impliziert)
1. Es scheint, das Wort Schlange hat bedeutet impliziert, dass die Form des Tier lang ist.
2. Allerdings ist das lang von Schlange verschieden vom Wort lang.
(It seems the word "Schlange" (snake) has implied that the shape of the animal is long.
The "lang" in "Schlange", however, is unrelated to the word "lang" (long).)
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:24 pm
by Travis B.
azhong wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:43 pm
1. Es scheint, das Wort Schlange hat bedeutet, dass die Form des Tier lang ist.
2. Allerdings ist das lang von Schlange verschieden vom Wort lang.
(It seems the word "Schlange" (snake) has implied that the shape of the animal is long.
The "lang" in "Schlange", however, is unrelated to the word "lang" (long).)
Ich bin kein Deutschsprachler, aber ich hatte geglaubt, dass bedeuten eher to mean als to imply auf Englisch bedeutet.
I am not a German-speaker, but I had thought that bedeuten
means to mean
rather than to imply
in English.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 6:02 am
by hwhatting
Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:02 pm
Isn't
Lächeln grammatically a gerund here? That is, a more accurate translation would be "
Smiling is free, but clothing isn't."
In any case, its usage is a bit different from other nouns, as this valuable note from the
Wiktionary entry makes clear:
Lächeln is grammatically peculiar because it does not have a generally accepted plural form, although the word is clearly countable. One can say: ein Lächeln − “a smile”; or: sein erstes und sein zweites Lächeln – “his first and his second smile”. But actual plural usage occurs only seldom, chiefly in the vernacular: seine beiden Lächeln – “his two smiles”. This usage is awkward and may sound ungrammatical to many language users.
Generally the plural needs to be paraphrased (for example: die beiden Male, wo er gelächelt hat – “the two times that he smiled”). Apart from this, German often uses the singular where English would use the plural: das Lächeln der Leute – “the smiles of the people”.
You explained it all better than I did.
azhong wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:43 pm
(Edit (after I read Travis's post):
bedeutet impliziert)
1. Es scheint, das Wort Schlange hat bedeutet impliziert hat*1), dass die Form des Tier lang ist.
2. Allerdings ist das lang von Schlange nicht verwandt mit dem Wort lang.
(It seems the word "Schlange" (snake) has implied that the shape of the animal is long.
The "lang" in "Schlange", however, is unrelated to the word "lang" (long).)
*1) I don't get why you use the perfect here, neither in English, nor in German.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 6:11 am
by hwhatting
Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:24 pm
Ich bin kein Deutschsprachler*2), aber ich hatte geglaubt, dass bedeuten eher to mean als to imply auf Englisch bedeutet.
I am not a German-speaker, but I had thought that bedeuten
means to mean
rather than to imply
in English.
*2) Sounds horribly wrong to me. Better:
Ich bin kein deutscher Muttersprachler or
Ich bin nicht deutschsprachig.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:01 am
by azhong
I don't get why you use the perfect here...
Oops, I missed this correction from Zompist when I copied all of them.
Thank you for your corrections, too, Hans.
Es scheint, das Wort "Schlange" impliziert, dass ...
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:26 pm
by azhong
1) Außer Spanien habe ich auch nach Frankreich gefahren.
2) Ich habe auch nach Frankreich gefahren, außer Spanien.
(Apart from Spain, I have also visited France.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:20 am
by azhong
How about the exercise based on the discussions in the "English Questions" thread?
Linguoboy is one of my language helpers on the internet.
I have been receiving his help from when/ since I learned in another language forum.
I still wear the same glass I had worn from when I first knew him.
But I don't use any longer the same laptop I used from then. (from I first knew him -> from then)
I really enjoy these days when I've beein learning languages. (these days + when)
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:05 am
by Linguoboy
azhong wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:26 pm
1) Außer Spanien habe ich auch nach Frankreich gefahren.
2) Ich habe auch nach Frankreich gefahren, außer Spanien.
(Apart from Spain, I have also visited France.
Remember that
fahren belongs to
that class of verbs which form the perfect with
sein rather than
haben.
azhong wrote:
1. Linguoboy is one of my language helpers on the internet.
2. I have been receiving his help from when/ since I learned in another language forum.
3. I still wear the same glasses I had worn from when I first knew him.
4. But I don't use any longer the same laptop I used from then. (from I first knew him -> from then)
5. I really enjoy these days when I've beein learning languages. (these days + when)
I've numbered these sentences in order to discuss them more easily. Most are malformed in some way. "From when" and "since" (which are not interchangeable) are not really compatible with a past perfect. They serve to link some past state of affairs to the present, but one use of the past perfect is to indicate a
break between the past and present (since if you were describing a past state that were still valid today, you'd use the present/present perfect).
Let's start with (4). If you're no longer using the laptop, then it's not a laptop "from then". The "from" indicates that it has been brought forward from that time in the past to the present, but it hasn't; you left it somewhere in the past. Therefore, I would replace "from then" with "
back then". (Also, I've underlined "don't use any longer" because, while I'm not sure it's actually ungrammatical, it's so awkward I don't recall hearing anyone say it. The usual phrasing is "I no longer use".)
Now for (3). Again, "had worn" indicates a break between past and present. But there's no break; you're still wearing the same glasses. You can dispense with a second clause entirely and just say "the glasses from when", but if you must have a verb here, I would use "I wore when" or "I was wearing when". (You don't need a "from" in this case.)
(2) is malformed with "from when". "Since" would work except that the use of "learn" here is off. Although "learn" can be used intransitively, it sounds odd to me to use it without an object except in very specific contexts (e.g. "I'm learning" to indicate to someone that you're still making a lot of mistakes in a particular area). Either "since I was learning languages in another forum" or "since I was in another language learning forum" would be better phrasings.
And (5) is just confused. If what you want to say is "I really enjoy learning languages these days", that's not how you'd express it.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:15 am
by hwhatting
azhong wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:26 pm
1) Außer nach Spanien bin ich auch*1) nach Frankreich gefahren.
2) Ich bin auch nach Frankreich gefahren, nicht nur nach Spanien.*2)
(Apart from Spain, I have also visited France.
*1) Better
noch or
auch noch instead of
auch.
*2)
außer is restricting, and for me it doesn't work when you adding something after the main clause. Examples where it works after a main clause are:
Ich bin in viele Ländern gefahren außer Spanien.
Ich bin in kein Land gefahren außer Spanien.
While
fahren is okay, I'd rather use
reisen "travel".
You can also use
besuchen "visit", as in English:
Außer / neben Spanien habe ich auch / noch / auch noch Frankreich besucht.
Ich habe auch Frankreich besucht, nicht nur Spanien.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:18 am
by azhong
1. Die Form eines Seils ist auch lang, sehr ähnlich der einer Schlange.
2. Ein Seil, das in hohem Gras liegt, sagt genauso aus wie eine Schlange.
3. Daher erschreckt ein Seil am Ufer auch mich manchmal.
(The shape of a rope is also long, very similar to that of a snake.
A rope lying in the tall grass looks exactly like a snake.
So at times I am also frightened by a rope on the riverbank.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:38 am
by hwhatting
azhong wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:18 am
1. Die Form eines Seils ist auch lang,*1) sehr ähnlich der einer Schlange.
2. Ein Seil, das in hohem Gras liegt, sieht genauso aus wie eine Schlange.
3. Daher erschreckt ein Seil am Ufer auch mich auch manchmal.*2)
(The shape of a rope is also long, very similar to that of a snake.
A rope lying in the tall grass looks exactly like a snake.
So at times I am also frightened by a rope on the riverbank.
*1) That sounds a bit unnatural, I'd either say ein
Seil ist lang, sehr ähnlich wie eine Schlange or
die Form eines Seils ist ähnlich der einer Schlange. What bugs me is the part
Die Form von X ist lang; if the attribute were other adjectives like
eckig or
rund, it would sound much more natural to me. Maybe other native German speakers have different views on this.
*2)
auch mich emphasises that it's you who are frightened, almost as if you wrote
sogar mich "even me", or as if it had be stated before that someone else is frightened by ropes and you agree..
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:54 pm
by azhong
Q: How about sentence 5.1 and 5.2? Are they natural as well or even more natural in the context? Thank you.
▸5. Daher/Somit erschreckt ein Seil am Ufer
auch mich mich auch manchmal.
▸5.1. Daher erschreckt mich auch ein Seil am Fluss manchmal.
▸5.2. Daher erschreckt mich manchmal auch ein Seil am Fluss.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 2:30 am
by hwhatting
azhong wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:54 pm
Q: How about sentence 5.1 and 5.2? Are they natural as well or even more natural in the context? Thank you.
▸5. Daher/Somit erschreckt ein Seil am Ufer
auch mich mich auch manchmal.
▸5.1. Daher erschreckt mich auch ein Seil am Fluss manchmal.
▸5.2. Daher erschreckt mich manchmal auch ein Seil am Fluss.
They're both okay, they just put the focus a little differently. But note that
somit is quite literary and you wouldn't normally use it in colloquial German.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:28 pm
by azhong
1. Der Wald, den du betrittst/ /den du betreten wirst, ist riesengroß und sehr gefährlich.
2. Auf deinem Weg gibt es viele Weggabelungen, deren einige dich in Lebensgefahr/ Lebensgefahren führen werden.
(The forest
you will enter(=you are entering) is huge and very dangerous.
There'll be many forks on your way, some of which will lead you into
mortal dangers.
Thank you for your comments.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:35 am
by azhong
Wenn man selb klar weiß, dass man schwiemmen will, braucht man dann nicht, sich darum zu kümmern, dass alle die anderen anziehen, wenn nur man alleine auszieht.
(If you yourself know clearly you want to swim, you don't need to care then about all the others getting dressed when only you alone are getting undressed.)
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:56 am
by hwhatting
azhong wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:28 pm
1. Der Wald, den du betrittst*1)/ /den du betreten wirst, ist riesengroß und sehr gefährlich.
2. Auf deinem Weg gibt es viele Weggabelungen, deren einige*2) dich in Lebensgefahr / Lebensgefahren*3) führen werden.
(The forest
you will enter(=you are entering) is huge and very dangerous.
There'll be many forks on your way, some of which will lead you into
mortal dangers.
*1) In general, the present tense can have future meaning in German when it's clear from the context; so whether you can use the present tense for the future here would depend on what comes before. In something like a scenario description, the simple past is also preferable.
*2) That is
very literary - in colloquial and even in non-pretentious written German
von denen einige is preferable.
*3) Lebesgefahr is always singular; if you want to render the English plural, use
tödliche Gefahren / Gefahren für Leib und Leben / lebensgefährliche Situationen.
azhong wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:35 am
Wenn man selber / selbst klar weiß, dass man schwiemmen will, braucht man dann nicht, sich dann nicht darum zu kümmern, dass alle die anderen sich anziehen, während nur man selbst sich auszieht.
(If you yourself know clearly you want to swim, you don't need to care then about all the others getting dressed when*4) only you alone are getting undressed.)
*4) I'd rather use
while in English as well, but I'm not a native speaker.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:21 pm
by Travis B.
hwhatting wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:56 am
azhong wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:35 am
Wenn man selber / selbst klar weiß, dass man schwiemmen will, braucht man dann nicht, sich dann nicht darum zu kümmern, dass alle die anderen sich anziehen, während nur man selbst sich auszieht.
(If you yourself know clearly you want to swim, you don't need to care then about all the others getting dressed when*4) only you alone are getting undressed.)
*4) I'd rather use
while in English as well, but I'm not a native speaker.
Actually to me, as a native English-speaker, both
when and
while work fine for me in this context.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:25 pm
by Travis B.
hwhatting wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 11:56 am
azhong wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:28 pm
1. Der Wald, den du betrittst*1)/ /den du betreten wirst, ist riesengroß und sehr gefährlich.
2. Auf deinem Weg gibt es viele Weggabelungen, deren einige*2) dich in Lebensgefahr / Lebensgefahren*3) führen werden.
(The forest
you will enter(=you are entering) is huge and very dangerous.
There'll be many forks on your way, some of which will lead you into
mortal dangers.
*1) In general, the present tense can have future meaning in German when it's clear from the context; so whether you can use the present tense for the future here would depend on what comes before. In something like a scenario description, the simple past is also preferable.
*2) That is
very literary - in colloquial and even in non-pretentious written German
von denen einige is preferable.
*3) Lebesgefahr is always singular; if you want to render the English plural, use
tödliche Gefahren / Gefahren für Leib und Leben / lebensgefährliche Situationen.
I should note that in English
mortal danger is normally a mass noun, and using it in the plural is to refer to different kinds of moral danger.
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:41 am
by jal
Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:25 pmdifferent kinds of moral danger
Es gibt sehr viele Arten von moralische Gefahren 😄.
There's many kinds of moral dangers 😄.
JAL
Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:59 am
by hwhatting
jal wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:41 am
Es gibt sehr viele Arten von moralischen Gefahren 
.
There's many kinds of moral dangers
.
.