Pronunciations you had to unlearn

[Man in Space]

One of my longest struggles is with the British spelling draught. I learned at least forty years ago that it is homophonous with draft (/dɹæft/ in my dialect), but to this day, when I first see it on the page, my instinct is to pronounce it as /dɹɔt/.

Same.

Same here as well.

I was in my 30s before I learned that /f/ was the correct pronunciation.

[Linguoboy]

I don't recall when it was that I discovered that potash is a straightforward compound of pot and ash (a calque of Dutch potas) and pronounced as such. For most of my life, I pronounced it with a long vowel in the first syllable and sometimes with final stress as well.

[foxcatdog]

now pronounce it like potato

[jal]

now pronounce it like potato

You mean potayto or potahto?


JAL

[Travis B.]

now pronounce it like potato

I have no idea what you mean here. It is /ˈpɑtˌæʃ/ in GA for the record.

[Travis B.]

I for the longest time pronounced velar as /ˈvɛlər/ [ˈvɜːɰʁ̩ˤ(ː)] instead of the correct /ˈviːlər/ [ˈviːɰʁ̩ˤ(ː)], and I have not completely unlearned the former because I still have to remind myself to use the latter.

[Darren]

I for the longest time pronounced velar as /ˈvɛlər/ [ˈvɜːɰʁ̩ˤ(ː)] instead of the correct /ˈviːlər/ [ˈviːɰʁ̩ˤ(ː)], and I have not completely unlearned the former because I still have to remind myself to use the latter.

I still do this and see no reason to stop since I never actually say it to people.

[Richard W]

I too have had the wrong vowel in this word, but in my case /eI/ (XSAMPA) through interference from Latin ve:lum.

[Darren]

I also say /ælˈvɛi̯ələ/ for no particular reason I can discern.

[Lērisama]

I had /ˌɵˈvɵwlə/¹² in my head for years. I still have to remind myself it's /ˈjɵwˌvjɵlə/³

¹ Interestingly, both varients contain a not-fully reduced vowel in the other root syllable. I'm not sure what to make of this
² Or /ʊˈvuːlə/ if you want to be archaic/more readible
³ Or /ˈjuːvjʊlə/ in the transcription above

[Travis B.]

For the sake of comparison I have /ælˈviːlər/ [ɛːɤ̯ˈviːɰʁ̩ˤ(ː)] and /ˈjuːvjələr/ [ˈjyːvjəɰʁ̩ˤ(ː)].

[Glenn]

An addition to my earlier post above: I recently re-read the section on Irreanism in Mark’s Religion Construction Kit, which reminded me to be mindful when trying to pronounce Flaidish vowels. In particular, I was reminded that the flaids’ homeland of Flora is pronounced [‘flu.rǝ], rather than like the English “flora” [‘flǝʊ.rǝ, ‘floʊ.rǝ], as is “flora and fauna,” which is still what leaps to my brain when I see the name. (At the same time, I suspect that when Mark first created the name Flora, before the details of Flaidish had been worked out, it may well have been pronounced in the English fashion.)

[jal]

(At the same time, I suspect that when Mark first created the name Flora, before the details of Flaidish had been worked out, it may well have been pronounced in the English fashion.)

And of course, there's no reason why you shouldn't pronounce it like English "flora" when talking in English about it. Unless you want to be very pedantic :).


JAL

[anteallach]

like the English “flora” [‘flǝʊ.rǝ, ‘floʊ.rǝ]

Off-topic, but how many English speakers actually have an [ʊ] glide in that context (FORCE vowel before intervocalic /r/)? In RP/SSBE and most similar accents FORCE is merged into THOUGHT, so you get [ɔː]~[oː], not [ǝʊ] or [oʊ], which would suggest GOAT. In some other accents (those without the NORTH-FORCE merger, or some American accents, especially those with THOUGHT merged into LOT) FORCE may be phonemically identified with GOAT, but an [ʊ] glide there feels really alien to me.

[Raphael]

Wait, so the second syllable of "cadre" is actually pronounced "re", not "er"? Wow.

[Travis B.]

like the English “flora” [‘flǝʊ.rǝ, ‘floʊ.rǝ]

Off-topic, but how many English speakers actually have an [ʊ] glide in that context (FORCE vowel before intervocalic /r/)? In RP/SSBE and most similar accents FORCE is merged into THOUGHT, so you get [ɔː]~[oː], not [ǝʊ] or [oʊ], which would suggest GOAT. In some other accents (those without the NORTH-FORCE merger, or some American accents, especially those with THOUGHT merged into LOT) FORCE may be phonemically identified with GOAT, but an [ʊ] glide there feels really alien to me.

In GA flora has [ɔː] (including for cot-caught-merged speakers). The same is also true of Inland North-speakers, whose THOUGHT/CLOTH is lowered but whose NORTH/FORCE is not. I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce a glide for a rounded mid back vowel before /r/, coda or intervocalic.

[Travis B.]

Wait, so the second syllable of "cadre" is actually pronounced "re", not "er"? Wow.

I am used to /ˈkɑːdreɪ/ (which for me is [kʰaːtʃɻʁe̞ː]) for cadre myself.

[Lērisama]

Wait, so the second syllable of "cadre" is actually pronounced "re", not "er"? Wow.

I am used to /ˈkɑːdreɪ/ (which for me is [kʰaːtʃɻʁe̞ː]) for cadre myself.

I am used to /ˈkædrə/ [ˈkʰæd͡ʒɹ̠ʷə]. I'm not sure I'd even understand /kɑːdrɛj/ as being the same word at first, though I'd probably get it eventually from context and knowing that Americans prefer to borrow stressed short as as PALM

[Glenn]

Off-topic, but how many English speakers actually have an [ʊ] glide in that context (FORCE vowel before intervocalic /r/)? In RP/SSBE and most similar accents FORCE is merged into THOUGHT, so you get [ɔː]~[oː], not [ǝʊ] or [oʊ], which would suggest GOAT. In some other accents (those without the NORTH-FORCE merger, or some American accents, especially those with THOUGHT merged into LOT) FORCE may be phonemically identified with GOAT, but an [ʊ] glide there feels really alien to me.

On reflection, I don't think that I actually have a [ʊ] glide in that context, but I would describe my vowel in that case as [o:] rather than [ɔː], at least if I am understanding those vowel qualities correctly. If I have a merger of FORCE and THOUGHT in that environment, I would say that it is in the direction of the former rather than the latter.

EDIT: However, I may not in fact be understanding those vowel qualities correctly. For context, I would describe my idiolect as basically GA, but without the caught-cot merger. I have always been accustomed to thinking of my vowel in caught/thought as [ɔ] and my vowel in cot/lot as [ɑ], but on reflection, the former is almost certainly [ɒ] rather than [ɔ]. Either way, my vowel in "Flora" (whether [o:] or [ɔː]) is quite different from my vowel in "thought" ([ɒ]).

[Travis B.]

Off-topic, but how many English speakers actually have an [ʊ] glide in that context (FORCE vowel before intervocalic /r/)? In RP/SSBE and most similar accents FORCE is merged into THOUGHT, so you get [ɔː]~[oː], not [ǝʊ] or [oʊ], which would suggest GOAT. In some other accents (those without the NORTH-FORCE merger, or some American accents, especially those with THOUGHT merged into LOT) FORCE may be phonemically identified with GOAT, but an [ʊ] glide there feels really alien to me.

On reflection, I don't think that I actually have a [ʊ] glide in that context, but I would describe my vowel in that case as [o:] rather than [ɔː], at least if I am understanding those vowel qualities correctly. If I have a merger of FORCE and THOUGHT in that environment, I would say that it is in the direction of the former rather than the latter.

EDIT: However, I may not in fact be understanding those vowel qualities correctly. For context, I would describe my idiolect as basically GA, but without the caught-cot merger. I have always been accustomed to thinking of my vowel in caught/thought as [ɔ] and my vowel in cot/lot as [ɑ], but on reflection, the former is almost certainly [ɒ] rather than [ɔ]. Either way, my vowel in "Flora" (whether [o:] or [ɔː]) is quite different from my vowel in "thought" ([ɒ]).

I am used to [ɒ(ː)] for THOUGHT/CLOTH and [ɔ(ː)ɹ]~[ɔ(ː)ɻ] (in GA) or [ɔ(ː)ʁˤ] (in my dialect) for NORTH/FORCE, which seems typical for a lot of North Americans even though I speak an Inland North dialect rather than GA.