English questions

Natural languages and linguistics
Zju
Posts: 912
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:05 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Zju »

Why do people mix up so many similar sounding words (their, they're, there, your, you're, etc. ect.), but never seem to mix up he's and his?
/j/ <j>

Ɂaləɂahina asəkipaɂə ileku omkiroro salka.
Loɂ ɂerleku asəɂulŋusikraɂə seləɂahina əɂətlahɂun əiŋɂiɂŋa.
Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ.
bradrn
Posts: 6257
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am

Re: English questions

Post by bradrn »

Zju wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:49 am Why do people mix up so many similar sounding words (their, they're, there, your, you're, etc. ect.), but never seem to mix up he's and his?
Most probably because he’s [çiːz] and his [çɪz] are both pronounced and spelled differently to each other, I’d imagine. (By comparison, their/they’re/there are near-homophones, while your/you’re are near-homographs.)
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
User avatar
Rounin Ryuuji
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

It's also apparently easy for your brain to think a sequence of sounds and momentarily forget how to spell them into the word they want (I've sometimes produced a typographical error youre, no apostrophe, for both your and you're).
Travis B.
Posts: 6853
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Travis B. »

bradrn wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:05 am
Zju wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:49 am Why do people mix up so many similar sounding words (their, they're, there, your, you're, etc. ect.), but never seem to mix up he's and his?
Most probably because he’s [çiːz] and his [çɪz] are both pronounced and spelled differently to each other, I’d imagine. (By comparison, their/they’re/there are near-homophones, while your/you’re are near-homographs.)
IMD both sets of words are true homophones, as [ðɛ̝(ː)ʁˤ]~[d̥ɛ̝(ː)ʁˤ] and [jɔ(ː)ʁˤ]~[jʁ̩ˤ(ː)] respectively.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
User avatar
Ryusenshi
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:57 pm
Location: Somewhere in France

Re: English questions

Post by Ryusenshi »

AFAIK their/they’re/there are true homophones in most varieties of English.
User avatar
Rounin Ryuuji
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

All three are [ðɛ(ː)ɹ~ðɛəɹ] for me.

The same with your, you're, which are usually [jɔ(ː)ɹ~jɔəɹ] when stressed, and [jəɹ] when unstressed.
Richard W
Posts: 1471
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Richard W »

Ryusenshi wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:21 pm AFAIK their/they’re/there are true homophones in most varieties of English.
They're and you're don't always fuse, but can remain disyllabic, so in that sense they're not fully homophonous with the possessives. Don't know if Greek-derived terminology can be stretched to cover this subtlety.
Travis B.
Posts: 6853
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Travis B. »

Richard W wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:22 pm
Ryusenshi wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:21 pm AFAIK their/they’re/there are true homophones in most varieties of English.
They're and you're don't always fuse, but can remain disyllabic, so in that sense they're not fully homophonous with the possessives. Don't know if Greek-derived terminology can be stretched to cover this subtlety.
What varieties do you speak of where this applies?
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
zompist
Site Admin
Posts: 2944
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:46 am
Location: Right here, probably
Contact:

Re: English questions

Post by zompist »

Richard W wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:22 pm They're and you're don't always fuse, but can remain disyllabic, so in that sense they're not fully homophonous with the possessives.
I think I agree, but for me it's associated with stress: "They're crazy" [ðer] "They're crazy." [ðer̩]. And frankly it's hard to distinguish that from "They are crazy."

Stressed your is [jor], stressed you're is [jur]... though I wouldn't be surprised if I sometimes reverse them. Disyllabic [jur̩] for stressed you're only sounds fine too. Unstressed, both are [jr̩].
bradrn
Posts: 6257
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am

Re: English questions

Post by bradrn »

Travis B. wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:25 pm
Richard W wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:22 pm
Ryusenshi wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:21 pm AFAIK their/they’re/there are true homophones in most varieties of English.
They're and you're don't always fuse, but can remain disyllabic, so in that sense they're not fully homophonous with the possessives. Don't know if Greek-derived terminology can be stretched to cover this subtlety.
What varieties do you speak of where this applies?
I have [jo̞ː] your vs [jəː] you’re, and [ðe̞ː] there vs [ðəː] their/they’re (though the latter set do tend to merge).
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Richard W
Posts: 1471
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Richard W »

Travis B. wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:25 pm
Richard W wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:22 pm
Ryusenshi wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:21 pm AFAIK their/they’re/there are true homophones in most varieties of English.
They're and you're don't always fuse, but can remain disyllabic, so in that sense they're not fully homophonous with the possessives. Don't know if Greek-derived terminology can be stretched to cover this subtlety.
What varieties do you speak of where this applies?
Most, it would seem. But with confidence, I spoke of my own. Morpheme boundaries can be quite resilient, at least when listening to one's own speech.
Travis B.
Posts: 6853
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Travis B. »

Richard W wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:11 am
Travis B. wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:25 pm
Richard W wrote: Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:22 pm

They're and you're don't always fuse, but can remain disyllabic, so in that sense they're not fully homophonous with the possessives. Don't know if Greek-derived terminology can be stretched to cover this subtlety.
What varieties do you speak of where this applies?
Most, it would seem. But with confidence, I spoke of my own. Morpheme boundaries can be quite resilient, at least when listening to one's own speech.
How often do you hear NAE varieties in everyday speech?
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
User avatar
Raphael
Posts: 4557
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:36 am

Re: English questions

Post by Raphael »

Do people in Britain use the term "pupil exchange" for what people from the US would call a "student exchange" if it involves people who are "pupils" rather than "students" in British English?
User avatar
Raphael
Posts: 4557
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:36 am

Re: English questions

Post by Raphael »

Is "melodramatic" an English word? Back in school, I once used it in English class, and the teacher, who was an exchange teacher from the USA, thought it wasn't.
User avatar
Linguoboy
Posts: 2453
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:00 am
Location: Rogers Park

Re: English questions

Post by Linguoboy »

Raphael wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:04 pm Is "melodramatic" an English word? Back in school, I once used it in English class, and the teacher, who was an exchange teacher from the USA, thought it wasn't.
LOL. It absolutely is. Did you you accent the wrong sylláble or something?
User avatar
Raphael
Posts: 4557
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:36 am

Re: English questions

Post by Raphael »

Linguoboy wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:01 pm LOL. It absolutely is. Did you you accent the wrong sylláble or something?
Probably. Oddly enough, it was during a discussion of our impressions of national characteristics of people from the USA.
User avatar
Rounin Ryuuji
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

It's a fairly common word, I think.
User avatar
Linguoboy
Posts: 2453
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:00 am
Location: Rogers Park

Re: English questions

Post by Linguoboy »

Raphael wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:07 pm
Linguoboy wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:01 pm LOL. It absolutely is. Did you you accent the wrong sylláble or something?
Probably. Oddly enough, it was during a discussion of our impressions of national characteristics of people from the USA.
HOW DARE YOU!
Travis B.
Posts: 6853
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: English questions

Post by Travis B. »

Linguoboy wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:59 am
Raphael wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:07 pm
Linguoboy wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:01 pm LOL. It absolutely is. Did you you accent the wrong sylláble or something?
Probably. Oddly enough, it was during a discussion of our impressions of national characteristics of people from the USA.
HOW DARE YOU!
LOL
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
User avatar
Raphael
Posts: 4557
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:36 am

Re: English questions

Post by Raphael »

Would you use the word "blog" to describe an individual blog post? I've seen people who do that, but I've also seen people who always use "blog post" or simply "post" instead. What's your personal preference?
Post Reply