Zompist Bboard Again

So, besides my native English, the two foreign languages I would say I know best are Spanish and French in that order. In Spanish, to say "your book", it's tu libro, and to say "his book", you can say su libro. The equivalent pronouns in French start with the same letter: ton livre, son livre.

This trips me the hell up when I'm studying Greek on Duolingo. I have to remember that το βιβλίο του means "his book" and that το βιβλίο σου means "your book", not the other way around, and I find I don't always.

Has anyone else who has learned more than one language experienced similar problems? What solutions have you tried to prevent mistakes of this sort?

The classic example for English speakers learning modern Greek is that "no" is όχι which sounds like "okay", and "yes" is ναι which sounds like "nay".

I think it's worse with related languages. When I was in high school, it was common to mix up English and German, or Latin and Spanish.
I don't think there's really any solution besides practice.

I once took Spanish lessons, and another student in these lessons slipped into pronouncing the Spanish words as if they were French, e.g. [ty ɛ're:] for tu eres.

I frequently confuse Indonesian and Spanish words. I guess it's because from a French/German/English perspective the two languages are phonologically similar.

I took French from year 3 to 12 and picked up Spanish as well for the last two years. My prior knowledge of French helped my Spanish a lot, but it never really caused any confusion even at the very beginning. I can't explain why exactly, but they each felt so separate in my mind that nothing ever crossed between them.

I am notorious for mixing my French into my Arabic.

There have been episodes of me confusing Cirth and Futhark.

I can remember saying "estas" instead of "estoy" to a Spanish speaker, due to interference from an IAL I was critiquing at the time.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:16 am I once took Spanish lessons, and another student in these lessons slipped into pronouncing the Spanish words as if they were French, e.g. [ty ɛ're:] for tu eres.

Oh god, I was once speaking Spanish to a coworker right after returning from a trip to Montreal, where I'd been speaking French. I kept saying "ouais" instead of "sí". That by itself would have been awkward enough, but to top it off ouais sounds very close to Mexican Spanish güey, which can be highly insulting depending on context, and he was a Mexican Spanish speaker.

This only occurred to me after the conversation and I avoided him for a couple months after that, I was so mortified.

Ich bin fröhlich, dass die einzige Fremdsprache, die ich überhaupt spreche, Deutsch ist, so, dass ich sich nicht über dieses Problem sorge.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:47 pm Ich bin fröhlich, dass die einzige Fremdsprache, die ich überhaupt spreche, Deutsch ist, so, dass ich sich nicht über dieses Problem sorge.

Meanwhile German: Ich habbe dein kriegs deklarierung bekommen, sein sie sich sicher das es keine diplomatische lössung gibt wo ich beginne.
•• Möchtest du dein leben wiederstaaten? [JA] [NEIN]

FlamyobatRudki wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:29 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:47 pm Ich bin fröhlich, dass die einzige Fremdsprache, die ich überhaupt spreche, Deutsch ist, so, dass ich sich nicht über dieses Problem sorge.

Meanwhile German: Ich habbe dein kriegs deklarierung bekommen, sein sie sich sicher das es keine diplomatische lössung gibt wo ich beginne.
•• Möchtest du dein leben wiederstaaten? [JA] [NEIN]

Deine Muttersprache ist Niederländisch, oder?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:41 pm

FlamyobatRudki wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:29 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:47 pm Ich bin fröhlich, dass die einzige Fremdsprache, die ich überhaupt spreche, Deutsch ist, so, dass ich sich nicht über dieses Problem sorge.

Meanwhile German: Ich habbe dein kriegs deklarierung bekommen, sein sie sich sicher das es keine diplomatische lössung gibt wo ich beginne.
•• Möchtest du dein leben wiederstaaten? [JA] [NEIN]

Deine Muttersprache ist Niederländisch, oder?

Ich beforzuge den begriff Das Germanischzentraleuropäische sprachkontinuom.

plz stop

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:47 pm Ich bin froh, dass die einzige Fremdsprache, die ich überhaupt spreche, Deutsch ist, so, dass ich mir nicht über dieses Problem keine Sorgen machen muss.

I have had interferences from closely related languages (e.g. from Russian when speaking Polish, from German when speaking Dutch), but the strangest case was when I was in Poland the first time and on several occasions only would remember a Dutch word instead of the Polish word I wanted to use.

hwhatting wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 2:09 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:47 pm Ich bin froh, dass die einzige Fremdsprache, die ich überhaupt spreche, Deutsch ist, so, dass ich mir nicht über dieses Problem keine Sorgen machen muss.

I have had interferences from closely related languages (e.g. from Russian when speaking Polish, from German when speaking Dutch), but the strangest case was when I was in Poland the first time and on several occasions only would remember a Dutch word instead of the Polish word I wanted to use.

IME, this isn't unusual. I've had interference between such diverse languages as Catalan and Korean[*] or German and Welsh[**]. It seems like sometimes my brain just goes, "You need the Foreign for 'understand'? Well here it is!" and chooses one of the equivalents it has at the ready. Other people have told me they've experienced the same thing with other unrelated or distantly-related language pairs.

[*] Here's a fun one from Korean and Catalan: The native Korean numeral for 'three' is 셋 /seys/, pronounced [sʰe̞ːt̚]. This is close enough to Catalan set "seven" that sometimes I end up counting "하나, 둘, 셋, vuit, nou, deu". It's like Clippy is in my brain going, "I see that you're counting. Would you like me to suggest some cardinal numbers?"

[**] With Welsh, what often happens is my brain goes, "Okay, we need an auxiliary verb to start off the sentence" and then it selects Irish tá instead of Welsh mae. I assume this has to do with the fact that these are the only languages I know well that are VSO.

Another frequent interference with this pair: Welsh requires the linking particle yn with both verb-nouns and adjectives. Irish only requires ag with verb-nouns; predicate adjectives follow the subject directly. But sometimes I'll be composing an Irish sentence with a predicate adjective and my brain goes, "Hey, you left something out!" and it takes me a moment to realise it's trying to supply something that doesn't need to be there.

Me, when I say what is supposed to be a plural adjective in Spanish los libros rojos a singular feminine one *los libros roja because that's what you do for adjectives modifying plural non-human nouns in Arabic, ie, al-kutub al-humra. Similarly doubling the definite article in Spanish, too, *el libro el rojo, because that mirrors the Arabic article double marking on noun and adjective: al-kitāb al-ahmar.

I also have to remember that Spanish is SVO, which is tricky sometimes, because there are certain constructions when Spanish does prefer a VSO word order iirc.

With that and my predilection for /T/ because of the Spaniard who taught me Spanish in high school, my (Mexican) Spanish-speaking coworkers were very amused by my idiolect.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:10 am IME, this isn't unusual. I've had interference between such diverse languages as Catalan and Korean[*] or German and Welsh[**]. It seems like sometimes my brain just goes, "You need the Foreign for 'understand'? Well here it is!" and chooses one of the equivalents it has at the ready. Other people have told me they've experienced the same thing with other unrelated or distantly-related language pairs.

That's extremely common - I too suffer from it, and explain it the same way.

I think the very broad use of à in French causes me to overuse ni in Japanese where I should use de.