Zompist Bboard Again

Some questions about Cadhinor that have been bugging me:

Revouse, focussing on letters, does not describe allophonic contrasts, such as between open and closed E and O. In classical Caďinor, these vowels are open (ɛ, ɔ as in 'pet, caught') in medial CV syllables and before final N and L, and closed (as in 'late, boat') elsewhere. Thus LEBES, SCOSOS, CTANEN, CALO = [lɛ bes, scɔ sos, kta nɛn, ka lo].

Are the allophones exactly what this paragraph says?

If I understand this right, because only final coda N/L matter, dennos 'day' would be [ˈden.nos], and the god Endauron [enˈdau.ɹɔn], with a mid-high [e], right?

What does "medial" mean here exactly? I take it this stands for all non-final CV syllables, so, eloreis [ɛ.lɔ.ˈɹɛ.is] 'queen', calenorion [ka.lɛ.ˈnɔ.ɹi.ɔn] 'fortress lord'. But erditis 'witch, female shaman' would be [eɹ.ˈdi.tis] with mid-high [e], because the syllable is CVC.

Stress is not normally marked in Caďinor. It normally falls on the penult (ábra, abrénna, aelílea); if this is a diphthong, the first vowel is stressed (áecres) unless it‘s u or i (bruéca, adleriénda). Final diphthongs are not normally stressed (alaťórion), but triphthongs are (butoscéio) The lexicon indicates, with an underline, stress that falls on an unexpected syllable.

I'd also like to know if "diphthong" here refers to contiguous written vowels, because of how early the creation of Cadhinor was started... so maybe you were doing something that'd feel more natural to an English speaker. Does calenorion end in [-ˈnɔ.ɹi.ɔn] or [-ˈnɔ.ɹjɔn]? Is eloreis actually [ɛ.lɔ.ˈɹɛis] (three syllables)?




As an aside comment, I find the various augmentatives interesting...

Caliend - the planet Caiem [‘great fortress’]
beluand - dear, cherished, greatly loveable
berundos - fog; Lake Berunor [‘great mist’]
Betcindos - Arauni god of Water [Arániceri ‘great mover’]
borunda - torrent, great river
Iriand - Iriam, the first of the iliĭ [c]
Okrond - god of death in Cayenas, later a sea monster [‘great golden one’]
pronactilandos - vizier, chief minister
sonsandos - culture, mores [‘great basis’]

I sometimes wonder whether Caliend < calenos 'fortress' should be Caliend [ka.li.ˈend] instead of [ˈka.li.end] (well, probably [ˈka.li.ɛnd [ˈka.ljɛnd]]...?) to conserve the stress position, like how belues [ˈbɛ.lu.es] > beluand to treat the ending of the stem as some sort of phonological diphthong ([ˈbɛ.lwes bɛˈlwand]?)... Although I realize this curious derivation might've been a solution to a pre-existing Caiem, for which you then just tried to find an etymology with minimal weirdness.





You also shocked me a few days ago, when I happened to use the online Cadhinor lexicon (as opposed to my working offline copy of it), and I saw a new word, atrabos 'tempest, great storm'! Upon more examination, it appears there's ten new words since I made my copy in March last year...

atrabos - tempest, great storm
crivorion - scrollmaster, librarian
lacantos - residence; citizenship
gadirion - expert; jurist
lacec - inhabitant, resident; citizen
namo - noble or lord in Eärdur province [c]
psiatanda - commonwealth, community [‘everyone place’] psiatanda caďina the idealized Caďinorian community
procliťus - advocate, lawyer
pronactilandos - vizier, chief minister
pronactile - minister (of state) [‘delegated’]
valtura - merit, worth

Talk about a shock! They all seem useful and give Cadhinor a certain more civilized air... Having words for 'lawyer', 'jurist', 'librarian' is quite something (also quite ancient Roman ). Maybe there could be a little warning there's new words... Although I can figure them out on my own like I just did here I suppose...

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:39 am Some questions about Cadhinor that have been bugging me:

Are the allophones exactly what this paragraph says?

If I understand this right, because only final coda N/L matter, dennos 'day' would be [ˈden.nos], and the god Endauron [enˈdau.ɹɔn], with a mid-high [e], right?

I'm pretty sure I meant syllable-final. That is, [dɛn nos], [ɛn dau rɔn] sound better to me, and are also reflected in Barakhinei dên, Êndaoru-- also in Ismaîn.

What does "medial" mean here exactly? I take it this stands for all non-final CV syllables, so, eloreis [ɛ.lɔ.ˈɹɛ.is] 'queen', calenorion [ka.lɛ.ˈnɔ.ɹi.ɔn] 'fortress lord'. But erditis 'witch, female shaman' would be [eɹ.ˈdi.tis] with mid-high [e], because the syllable is CVC.

Yeah, "medial" is clumsy there-- I meant non-final. Your allophones here sound correct to me.

I'd also like to know if "diphthong" here refers to contiguous written vowels, because of how early the creation of Cadhinor was started... so maybe you were doing something that'd feel more natural to an English speaker. Does calenorion end in [-ˈnɔ.ɹi.ɔn] or [-ˈnɔ.ɹjɔn]? Is eloreis actually [ɛ.lɔ.ˈɹɛis] (three syllables)?

Again, I'd be more careful today. You can take it to mean contiguous vowels, though most of the time they are diphthongs.

You would normally say [jɔn] and [ejs] in these two words. But if you needed the extra syllable for meter or prosody, you can fully pronounce the i.

I sometimes wonder whether Caliend < calenos 'fortress' should be Caliend [ka.li.ˈend] instead of [ˈka.li.end] (well, probably [ˈka.li.ɛnd [ˈka.ljɛnd]]...?) to conserve the stress position, like how belues [ˈbɛ.lu.es] > beluand to treat the ending of the stem as some sort of phonological diphthong ([ˈbɛ.lwes bɛˈlwand]?)... Although I realize this curious derivation might've been a solution to a pre-existing Caiem, for which you then just tried to find an etymology with minimal weirdness.

Very often I was working backwards, but I don't think this one is an irregularity.
I think the rule is that you stress the augmentative only if there's also a final syllable, as in berundos.

Talk about a shock! They all seem useful and give Cadhinor a certain more civilized air... Having words for 'lawyer', 'jurist', 'librarian' is quite something (also quite ancient Roman ). Maybe there could be a little warning there's new words... Although I can figure them out on my own like I just did here I suppose...

I don't usually make a note of a few new words, but sorry for the shock! These are all from the Constitution chapter on my Patreon.