Zompist Bboard Again

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 6:09 pm 2) "Isidorianist" is actually a pretty sick burn.

But he is using it wrong, since he is the one being an Isidorianist himself.

For /tɬ/ without /ɬ/, PHOIBLE has Nahuatl, Wintu, and Squamish, and IPHON has Bawm. Wintu and Squamish look dubious, but Nahuatl is a known case. Reichle 1981 agrees that Bawm doesn't have /ɬ/, but analyzes <tl thl> as the only clusters in the language, which seems silly - why not unit /tɬ tɬʰ/? In...

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:00 pm Ah, so it is a overall rarity then. I guess I'll have to find a source of ɬ if I want tl > t͡ɬ,

l devoices after consonants and in wordfinal position? That is quite natural and not uncommon.

I found Launey's book easier but also got the vague hunch that it was less accurate and less detailed. It is perhaps less detailed, but by no means less accurate (he just doesnt write with the stilted assertive style Andrews does to prop himself up as an authority). And if you like a more detailed ...

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:16 pm Possible - I don't know.

Sounds like something I would say. Since it's pretty much true. A little oversimplified perhaps, but the Spanish colonial system maintained the altepetls as "repúblicas de indios", with their own cabildo functioning pretty much as the precolonial government did.

The Nahuatl sounds like the Zacatlan dialects to me (West Sierra de Puebla), the main give-away is the metathesis of initial ti-, ni- and xi- to it-, in- and ix-.

Yes, Kaufman's unpublished reconstruction work cannot really be trusted. It may serve as inspiration sometimes. But he gives his readers no ways to check his arguments. Someone has to sit down and do the work from the bottom up. I think Zapotecan and Mixtecan is pretty far in terms of reconstruction...

That looks pretty promising to me, I'll see if I can find Oto-Pame or Tlapanec cognates for those. I really think the family is solid - I just think the processes are so difficult to spot because they involve so many aspects of vowels that all influence eachother (tone, nasality, quality), and then ...

Just found a fun one between mixtec and otomi:
vìkǒ “cloud”
vikǒ “feast”

ngo "feast"
gü "cloud"

I am guessing a protoform is *miko

I think there is a cultural tradition that likens warriors to predatory animals - think of the eagle and jaguar and coyote warrior societies for example. So both tecuani and yaotl refer to the ruler as a warrior.

iquac ticcaoa quac aca tiquiana iquac (illegible) ca ie totecuyo, ca totequacauh auh ie toiaouh when we-him-leave then someone we-him-take, truly already our-lord, truly our-lord-??, and he-our-enemy ipampa in ne(illegible) mach ontlatlatlami tlatolli inic tlapalolo inic tlatlauhtilo. that-for ART ...

I am new to this particular manifestation of the ZBB. But thanks for the pickles.

Here are some between Oto-Pame and Tlapanec-Mangue: ma-tha “rio” (Tlap.) (first syllable is "big") dö-the “rio” (Oto) (first syllable is "big") tehe “water” (Oto ndéhe “water” (Maz) intawi “water” (Mtz.) ndà ”water” (Ocu.) tæ/ndæ ”water” (CP.) (Compare also with Zapotec inda ”wat...

I enjoyed them thoroughly. We should try finding sets across otomangue, some folks doubt it is a real family.