Phrase evolution game

Conworlds and conlangs
Post Reply
Otto Kretschmer
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:09 pm
Location: Poland

Phrase evolution game

Post by Otto Kretschmer »

This is a copy of a CBB. Every person applies a handful of phonetic changes to the phrase below. One may also apply morphological or syntactic changes but they dhould be rarer...
s -
Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres

['Gallia est 'omnis di'viza in 'partes 'tres]

1. Rhotacism [s] - [r] at the end of words
2. [mn] to [mm]
3. Prosthetic [j] before [e]

Gallia iest ommir divisa in parter trer


['Gallia jest 'ommir di'viza in 'parter 'trer]
Last edited by Otto Kretschmer on Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Rounin Ryuuji
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

Otto Kretschmer wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:05 pm This is a copy of a CBB. Every person applies a handful of phonetic changes to the phrase below. One may also apply morphological or syntactic changes but they dhould be rarer
s -
Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres

['Gallia est 'omnis di'viza in 'partes 'tres]

1. Rhotacism [s] - [r] at the end of words
2. [mn] to [mm]
3. Prosthetic [j] before [e]

Gallia iest ommir divisa in parter trer


['Gallia jest 'ommir di'viza in 'parter 'trer]
Sounds fun!

(1) Lengthening of vowels prerhotically
(2) Nasalisation of vowels before coda nasal and deletion of the subsequent vowel with compensatory lengthening.

Gallia iest õmîr divisa in partêr trêr.
['gal.lia jest 'õː.miːr di'vi.za in parteːr treːr]
User avatar
Vilike
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:10 am
Location: Elsàss
Contact:

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Vilike »

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:06 pm
Gallia iest õmîr divisa in partêr trêr.
['gal.lia jest 'õː.miːr di'vi.za in parteːr treːr]
  1. Geminated resonants are pre-stopped
  2. Initial clusters are broken up with a (short) copy of the following vowel
  3. Final clusters are simplified
Gadlia ies õmîr divisa in partêr terêr.
['ga.ᵈlia jes 'õː.miːr di'vi.za in parteːr tereːr]
Yaa unák thual na !
Otto Kretschmer
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:09 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Otto Kretschmer »

A slight change in word order

Gadlia õmîr ies divisa in terêr partêr
['ga.ᵈlia õː.miːr jes di'vi.za in tereːr parteːr,]
User avatar
quinterbeck
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:19 pm

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by quinterbeck »

Otto Kretschmer wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:17 pm Gadlia õmîr ies divisa in terêr partêr
['ga.ᵈlia õː.miːr jes di'vi.za in tereːr parteːr,]
  1. Reduction of mid and open vowels in unstressed syllables
  2. Fortition of nasals after nasal vowels to voiced stops
  3. v > β
Gadliə õbîr iəs divisa in tərêr partêr
['ga.ᵈliə 'õː.biːr jəs di'βi.zə in tə'reːr 'parteːr]
User avatar
Rounin Ryuuji
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

quinterbeck wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:47 pm
  1. Reduction of mid and open vowels in unstressed syllables
  2. Fortition of nasals after nasal vowels to voiced stops
  3. v > β
Gadliə õbîr iəs divisa in tərêr partêr
['ga.ᵈliə 'õː.biːr jəs di'βi.zə in tə'reːr 'parteːr]
(1) Loss of terminal nasals from unstressed syllables.
(2) Long non-nasal vowels become diphthongs, /eː/ > /ie/, /iː/ > /ei/
(3) Loss of schwa, lengthening a preceding vowel, denasalisation of long vowels
(4) Intervocalic /b β/ merge.

Gadlie ôbeir ies divise i trier partier
['ga.ᵈliː oːβeir iːs di'βiːz i trier par'tier]
bradrn
Posts: 6259
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by bradrn »

Oh, so we’re doing this game again? Excellent!
Rounin Ryuuji wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:58 am Gadlie ôbeir ies divise i trier partier
['ga.ᵈliː oːβeir iːs di'βiːz i trier par'tier]
  1. /r/ → /ɐ̆/ in coda
  2. Long vowel and diphthong shortening
  3. Final vowel loss with transphonologisation of height+rounding onto previous vowel and compensatory lengthening
Gadle ober is divez i trir parter. (more historical)
Gädl öbr is divz i trir pärtr. (more phonetic)
[ɡæːᵈl ɤːβɐ̆ is diːβz i triɐ̆ pæːɐ̆tɐ̆]
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
User avatar
Vilike
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:10 am
Location: Elsàss
Contact:

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Vilike »

bradrn wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:21 am Gadle ober is divez i trir parter. (more historical)
Gädl öbr is divz i trir pärtr. (more phonetic)
[ɡæːᵈl ɤːβɐ̆ is diːβz i triɐ̆ pæːɐ̆tɐ̆]
  1. Coda prestopped resonants become simple stops
  2. Coda /β/ falls off
Gäd öbr is diz i trir pärtr. (more phonetic)
[ɡæːd ɤːβɐ̆ is diːz i triɐ̆ pæːɐ̆tɐ̆]
Yaa unák thual na !
Zju
Posts: 912
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:05 pm

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Zju »

Vilike wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:33 am
  1. Coda prestopped resonants become simple stops
  2. Coda /β/ falls off
Gäd öbr is diz i trir pärtr. (more phonetic)
[ɡæːd ɤːβɐ̆ is diːz i triɐ̆ pæːɐ̆tɐ̆]
  1. ɐ̆ merges to a
  2. Final devoicing
  3. Spelling reform towards the 'proper' language of the ancients
Gadl õmer is divis in trêr parter.
[ɡæːt ɤːβa is diːs i tria pæːata]
/j/ <j>

Ɂaləɂahina asəkipaɂə ileku omkiroro salka.
Loɂ ɂerleku asəɂulŋusikraɂə seləɂahina əɂətlahɂun əiŋɂiɂŋa.
Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ.
User avatar
dɮ the phoneme
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:53 am
Location: On either side of the tongue, below the alveolar ridge
Contact:

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by dɮ the phoneme »

Zju wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:19 am Gadl õmer is divis in trêr parter.
[ɡæːt ɤːβa is diːs i tria pæːata]
(0. stress assigned based on left-aligned moraic trochees. The copula (is), as well as function words (in) are parsed as enclitics. Thus [(ɡæːt) (ˈɤː.βa)is (ˈdiː.si) (ˈtri.a) (ˈpæː.a)ta].)

1. all vowels delete word finally in metrically weak or unfooted syllables
2. high vowels delete in metrically weak or unfooted syllables anywhere in a word
3. coda fricatives lenite to [h~ɦ] after a vowel, coda stops lenite to [ʔ] in the same environment
4. Vh Vʔ > V̤̀ V́

note that the copula is now expressed by a floating tone

Gadl õmer's divis in trêr parter.
[ɡǽː ɤ̄ːβà̤ dīːs trī pǣːá]
Ye knowe eek that, in forme of speche is chaunge
With-inne a thousand yeer, and wordes tho
That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge
Us thinketh hem; and yet they spake hem so,
And spedde as wel in love as men now do.

(formerly Max1461)
User avatar
Rounin Ryuuji
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

dɮ the phoneme wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:56 am
Zju wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:19 am Gadl õmer is divis in trêr parter.
[ɡæːt ɤːβa is diːs i tria pæːata]
(0. stress assigned based on left-aligned moraic trochees. The copula (is), as well as function words (in) are parsed as enclitics. Thus [(ɡæːt) (ˈɤː.βa)is (ˈdiː.si) (ˈtri.a) (ˈpæː.a)ta].)

1. all vowels delete word finally in metrically weak or unfooted syllables
2. high vowels delete in metrically weak or unfooted syllables anywhere in a word
3. coda fricatives lenite to [h~ɦ] after a vowel, coda stops lenite to [ʔ] in the same environment
4. Vh Vʔ > V̤̀ V́

note that the copula is now expressed by a floating tone

Gadl õmer's divis in trêr parter.
[ɡǽː ɤ̄ːβà̤ dīːs trī pǣːá]
(1) Long vowel chain shift [æ:] > [ɛː], [ɤː] > [oː], bit [iː] is unaffected
(2) Shortening of initial elements in a diphthong, [ɛːa] > [ɛa]
(3) Dialectal form of divis intrudes, in which the medial [β] shifted to [w], then [iwi] > [yː]

Gêdl ômer dŷs in trî partêr
[gɛ́ːōːβà̤ dȳːs trī pɛá]
Otto Kretschmer
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:09 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Otto Kretschmer »

Deould you like a single letion of final [s]

Gêdl ômer dŷs in trî partêr
[gɛ́ːōːβà̤ dȳː trī pɛá]

Are we at the stage of French already? :)

Guys, when the next sentence comes up, would you like a single sentence or something longer like Schleicher's fable length?
Zju
Posts: 912
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:05 pm

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Zju »

Otto Kretschmer wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:38 pm Deletion of final [s]

Gêdl ômer dŷs in trî partêr
[gɛ́ːōːβà̤ dȳː trī pɛá]

Are we at the stage of French already? :)
I think we're way past French already.

0. No longer spelling <in> - dropped out a while ago
1. Onset glide prothesis
2. Shift in word order
3. New word for in, ultimately from intra 'inside'

Ômer Gêdl dŷs ita trî partêr.
[wōːβà̤ gɛ́ː dȳː jītā trī pɛʕá]
/j/ <j>

Ɂaləɂahina asəkipaɂə ileku omkiroro salka.
Loɂ ɂerleku asəɂulŋusikraɂə seləɂahina əɂətlahɂun əiŋɂiɂŋa.
Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ.
User avatar
Rounin Ryuuji
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

Zju wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:56 pm I think we're way past French already.

0. No longer spelling <in> - dropped out a while ago
1. Onset glide prothesis
2. Shift in word order
3. New word for in, ultimately from intra 'inside'

Ômer Gêdl dŷs ita trî partêr.
[wōːβà̤ gɛ́ː dȳː jītā trī pɛʕá]
1. Palatalisation of [g] > [dʒ] and [d] > [dz] before front vowels
2. Deletion of intervocalic voiced fricatives
3. Glottal stop deletion, compensatory lengthening of preceding vowels
3.1. Orthography changed to reflect some changes

Wôer Gêdl zŷs yita tri pêr
[wōːwà̤ dʒɛ́ː dzȳː jītā trī pɛː.á]
User avatar
dɮ the phoneme
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:53 am
Location: On either side of the tongue, below the alveolar ridge
Contact:

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by dɮ the phoneme »

Zju wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:56 pm Ômer Gêdl dŷs ita trî partêr.
[wōːβà̤ gɛ́ː dȳː jītā trī pɛʕá]
Unless you've moved the copula to V2 position, I think [wōːβà̤] should actually be [wōːβā]. That low tone is the copula, at least per my revision.
Ye knowe eek that, in forme of speche is chaunge
With-inne a thousand yeer, and wordes tho
That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge
Us thinketh hem; and yet they spake hem so,
And spedde as wel in love as men now do.

(formerly Max1461)
Otto Kretschmer
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:09 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Otto Kretschmer »

I repeat, next would you like a single sentence, two or three or something longer like Schleicher's fable length?
User avatar
Vilike
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:10 am
Location: Elsàss
Contact:

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Vilike »

Schleicher is way too long. Something like three sentences, yes.
Yaa unák thual na !
Otto Kretschmer
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:09 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Otto Kretschmer »

Then do you think should be the time for a new phrase?
Zju
Posts: 912
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:05 pm

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Zju »

dɮ the phoneme wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:07 pm
Zju wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:56 pm Ômer Gêdl dŷs ita trî partêr.
[wōːβà̤ gɛ́ː dȳː jītā trī pɛʕá]
Unless you've moved the copula to V2 position, I think [wōːβà̤] should actually be [wōːβā]. That low tone is the copula, at least per my revision.
Right. I honestly lost track of all previous synchronic rules. Feel free to correct it.
I concur that a single sentence is too short, but Schleicher's fable is too long. Something like 20 words is more like it.
/j/ <j>

Ɂaləɂahina asəkipaɂə ileku omkiroro salka.
Loɂ ɂerleku asəɂulŋusikraɂə seləɂahina əɂətlahɂun əiŋɂiɂŋa.
Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ.
Otto Kretschmer
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:09 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Phrase modifying game

Post by Otto Kretschmer »

I may provide it already if you have appetite for something Proto Germanic :)

Ainaz furi mahtigaz kuningaz Wiljahelmaz sat ana hausetijai andi lokode at ruinoz sinas kuningadomas. Kuningaz wisse ne hwat iz skulde doną

['ɑinɑz furi 'mɑxti:gɑz 'kuningɑz 'wiljɑhelmɑz sɑt ɑna 'hɑusetijɑi ɑndi 'lɔ:kɔ:de ɑt ruinɔ:z 'si:nɑs 'kuningɑdɔ:mas. 'kuningɑz :wisse: ne xwɑt i:z 'skulde: 'dɔnɑ̃]

1. Change of phonotactics to penultimate syllabe with strong syllabe timing

['ɑinɑz 'fu'ri mɑ'xti:gɑz ku'ningɑz wiljɑ'helmɑz sɑt ɑnɑ hɑu'setijɑi ɑndi lɔ:'kɔ:de ɑt 'ruinɔ:z 'si:nɑs kuningɑ'dɔ:mas. Ku'ningɑz 'wisse: ne xwɑt i:z 'skulde: dɔnɑ̃]

This is slightly more than 20 words. Pick it up already or do a few more changes to the previous one and then take it.
Post Reply