Phrase evolution game

[Rounin Ryuuji]

(Looks like you forgot to transcribe no todori — the IPA jumps straight from isĭwokori to ni sŏfuru. If you fix this I’ll edit my post.)

Should be fixed now. I should note also that the vowels have rounding already, but it's compressed and endolabial, if that affects anything you're imagining.

(Also, only one of these changes do I find areally unlikely, and that's the emergence of [k͡p].)

[bradrn]

(Looks like you forgot to transcribe no todori — the IPA jumps straight from isĭwokori to ni sŏfuru. If you fix this I’ll edit my post.)

Should be fixed now.

Thanks!

I should note also that the vowels have rounding already, but it's compressed and endolabial, if that affects anything you're imagining.

Well, change (2) turns compression into rounding, so I don’t see how this affects anything.

(Also, only one of these changes do I find areally unlikely,

Good to know! I worked on the principle of mushifying it as much as possible. I hate the result.

and that's the emergence of [k͡p].)

Well, what else could possibly happen to [kᵝ]?

[Rounin Ryuuji]

I should note also that the vowels have rounding already, but it's compressed and endolabial, if that affects anything you're imagining.

Well, change (2) turns compression into rounding, so I don’t see how this affects anything.

I just thought I should probably note it in case you wanted a take-backsie.

(Also, only one of these changes do I find areally unlikely,

Good to know! I worked on the principle of mushifying it as much as possible. I hate the result.

I think it hates you, too!

and that's the emergence of [k͡p].)

Well, what else could possibly happen to [kᵝ]?

It would probably just end up [k] or [p]; areal features will probably crush the poor thing into a geminate.

[bradrn]

(Also, only one of these changes do I find areally unlikely,

Good to know! I worked on the principle of mushifying it as much as possible. I hate the result.

I think it hates you, too!

Don’t worry, next time I’ll balance it out by adding all those horrible nasty gulpy sounds you hate so much. (After all, a vowel system of [i u e ɔ ɐ ʌ ɯ] is also perfectly areally acceptable!)

and that's the emergence of [k͡p].)

Well, what else could possibly happen to [kᵝ]?

It would probably just end up [k] or [p]; areal features will probably crush the poor thing into a geminate.

I’d be really curious to know how you come to this conclusion — I don’t know too much about the region.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Good to know! I worked on the principle of mushifying it as much as possible. I hate the result.

I think it hates you, too!

Don’t worry, next time I’ll balance it out by adding all those horrible nasty gulpy sounds you hate so much. (After all, a vowel system of [i u e ɔ ɐ ʌ ɯ] is also perfectly areally acceptable!)

Don't worry, I have a helpful historical incident that can cure at least a few of them. It will also make some weird structural changes.

Well, what else could possibly happen to [kᵝ]?

It would probably just end up [k] or [p]; areal features will probably crush the poor thing into a geminate.

I’d be really curious to know how you come to this conclusion — I don’t know too much about the region.

More: show

I didn't really know consonants could do some sort of compression (and I guess endolabialisation); given that Middle High Tinasan has labialisation, palatalisation, and labiopalatalisation (Early Tinasan had labiopalatalisation, too, but none of the sequences including it were in the sample, and it was just a sort of "allophone" of palatalisation when applied to labials that weren't /w/), I might just expect it to sit there as another manner of articulation (the Early Tinasan phoneme inventory wasn't that big, just your standard /m n p b t d k g s z ɕ ʑ f h r l w j i e u a o/. Every vowel other than /a/ can be overshort, though some words that would be expected to have /a/ do have overshort /o/ in its place, suggesting it once could, but it and overshort /o/ merged; there was also a diphthong, /eo/, that was the same length as a short vowel, and emerged mostly where an overshort vowel ended up stuffed into a prominent syllable.

All of /t d k g f h/ are always labialised before /o/, and the sequence */hu/ does not occur. They can also be labialised before /i e/, but this labialisation is weaker, and gets lost in Middle High Tinasan. I would imagine compression would do the same (> [k]), or if it pushed the articulation elsewhere, it would still have a simple realisation (> [p]), though that sound was pretty rare, with most */p/ ending up either /f/ or /pp/. You just don't get a lot of "complex" articulation with consonants. A VERY few words have initial clusters — PJ. *kùjá pèy(u) yùrí "sorrow end lily" > ET /klàbél/ "daffodil", /glàbél~glàél/ a kind of lily — but they tend to have complex or phrasal etymologies — the reflex of *kùjá in isolation is goel, and are always clusters of stop + liquid. Early Tinasan is internally a long way from Ineshîmé, which tends to be a bit more Koreanesquely permissive with allowing its consonants to touch. It also only allows /l n/ in the coda at this stage (the /l/ usually descends from a transposed */j/ that then fortifies into a palatal lateral). You do end up with [t̪͡s̪ʲ], but both stops are at the same points of articulation, and the /k g/ in /kl gl/ are usually [c ɟ].

I could also see [k͡p] specifically being perceived as an uncouth or bumpkinish pronunciation, so it might get stigmatised out of existence (and I personally find it kind-of hard to articulate, so it probably just "feels" wrong on some level).

Also, this isn't really here or there, but voiceless stops begin to develop aspirations in Eastern varieties, but this feels more West Tinasan to me so far, so aspiration will probably be slow to spread unless it develops from something else.

[Otto Kretschmer]

Somehow I'd like to see Japonic with lots of nasal vowels...

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Japanese has loads of its vowels nasalised already. I guess you mean with phonemic nasalisation?

[Neonnaut]

1. Stress the first syllable with low tone. Tone dissapears.
2. əᵝ > ɞ
3. All diphthongs end in a close-mid vowel, ending vowel of diphthong becomes round if first is round.

在抂朝、期々意識堉乃復堉丹相林抂意芽津悗堉丹凬、吾荄起木。
Arŭasa, tokŏdokŏ isĭwokori no todori ni sŏfuru isime tsu moyori nite, wore nisekĕ
[aˈɺɞ.aːs͎a | t̪ʷoːˈkʷɞd̪ᵝok͡pɞ iˈɕə͡ɵɥɵt͡ɕᶣɵ͡ɵɾ̪ʲi ˈnʷo t̪ʷod̪ʷo͡ɵˈɾ̪ᶣy ˈnʷo ˈs̪ə͡ɵʍʉːɺʷʉ̀ iɕiːˈmʲɛ ˈt͡ɕᶣy mᶣɵɥɵˈɾ̪ᶣy͡ɵ ɲiˈt͡ɕɛ | woːˈɺʷɞ ɲiːˈɕɛtɕɜ]

Arŭasa,

certain.morning,

tokŏdokŏ

instance~REDUP

isĭwokori

mind.aware.INF

no

GEN

todori

return.INF

ni

COM

sŏfuru

accompany.ADN

isime

mind

tsu

CONN

moyori

perplex.NOM

nite,

COM,

wore

1SG.NOM

nisekĕ

awaken.PST

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Superstratum influences from Middle High TInasan:

• [s͎] merges back with [s̪];
• [ɺɞ] > [ɺʷ] > [ɫ] in hiatus before vowels;
• [d̪ᵝ] > [d̪͡b] > [p.p]; [k͡p] > [k.k];
• The stress accent is neutralised;
• [ə͡ɵ] > [ʷo͜oᵝ]; [ᶣɵ͡ɵ] > [y͜yᵝː]; [ɥò] > [jyᵝ], [ᶣɵ] > [ᶣyᵝ]; ]y͡ɵ] > [y͜yᵝ];
• [ʷɞ] > [ʷo]; endolabial compression on rounded vowels is reintroduced;
• [ʍ] reverts to [ɸʷ];
• Palatalisation is lost before [ɛ]; [t͡ɕɛ] > [t̪.t̪ɛ];
• Voiceless stops and affricates are aspirated.

The imperative forms would presumably change, since an ending -lwu in the predicative would presumably push out the hortative -lu and cause the plain imperative form (historically -uro or -yo) to be used generally, but this isn't represented in the sample. This was originally based on a mistake, but ni, nitte become nwo, nwotte. The past tense form in -tte is now too close to the sequential gerund, and is replaced by -chatte (a contraction of it with what I imagine the reflex of the past tense of the copula would be).

There is also a fad for rather extreme manners that wreaks havoc on the pronominal system; poor sensible wôlwo is replaced with the heavily Middle High Tinasanised watagattare.

Also, have some Tezeki (Hiragana), the spellings are based on conventional usage from Middle High Tinasan, rather than reflecting historical sound changes. This makes for some very amusingly long particle spellings. Also refreshed the Romanisation a bit.

在る朝、期々 意識り ぬを 復堉 ぬを 相ふうる 意芽 きゆ 悗堉りゆう にをつてい、我手方れ 起つてあつてい。
Alwâsa, twōkwóppokko ishwôyuchûri nwo twodwôryu nwo swôfūlwu ishîme chyu myuyuryû nyuotte, watagattare nîsechatte.
[àˈɫá͜á.s̪à | t̪ʰʷó͜óᵝˈkʰʷóᵝp.pʰòᵝk.kʰɞ̀ ì.ɕᶣó͜óᵝ.jỳᵝ.t͡ɕʰý͜ýᵝ.ɾ̪ʲì ˈnʷòᵝ t̪ʰʷóᵝ.d̪ʷó͜óᵝˈɾ̪ᶣỳᵝ ˈnʷòᵝ ˈs̪ʷó͜óᵝ.ɸʷʉ̀͜ʉ̀.ɫʉ̀ ì.ɕí͜í.mɛ̀ ˈt͡ɕʰᶣỳ mᶣýjỳᵝˈɾ̪ᶣý͜ỳᵝ ɲᶣót̪.t̪ʰɛ̀ | wá.tʰà.gát̪.t̪ʰà.ɾ̪ɛ̀ ɲí͜í.s̪ɛ̀t.t͡ɕʰát̪.tʰɛ̀]

Alwâsa,

certain.morning,

tōkóppokkŏ

instance~REDUP

ishwôyuchûri

mind.aware.INF

nwo

GEN

twodwôryu

return.INF

nwo

COM

swôfûlw

accompany.ADN

ishîme

mind

chyu

CONN

moyori

perplex.NOM

nwotte,

COM,

watagattare

1SG.NOM

nîsette

awaken.PST

Now let's see you rebel against this hegemonic superstratum.

[bradrn]

Now let's see you rebel against this hegemonic superstratum.

OK then!

1. V͜V → Vː (purely notational change)
2. V͜Vᵝ → Vːβ̞
3. Vβ̞ Vᵝ → V
4. ɫ → w
5. Vowel centralisation and backing: ʉ ɞ → u ɔ, then y ɤ a → ʉ ə ɐ
6. [+palatal]ᶣ → [+velar]ʷ (with deaffrication); other Cᶣ → Cʷ
7. Stop–fricative chain shift: geminates → stops, voiceless stops → fricatives, voiced stops → nasals, and fricatives voice
8. Cʷ → C / _ [-round]

在る朝、期々 意識り ぬを 復堉 ぬを 相ふうる 意芽 きゆ 悗堉りゆう にをつてい、我手方れ 起つてあつてい。
Alwâsa, twōkwóppokko ishwôyuchûri nwo twodwôryu nwo swôfūlwu ishîme chyu myuyuryû nyuotte, watagattare nîsechatte.
[ɐ̀ˈwɐ́ːz̪ɐ̀ | s̪ʷóːˈxə́pʰə̀kʰɔ̀ ìɣʷóːjìɕʉ́ːɾ̪ʲì ˈnə̀ s̪ə́n̪ʷóːˈɾ̪ì ˈnə̀ ˈz̪ʷóːβʷùːwù ìʑíːmɛ̀ ˈxʷʉ̀ mʷʉ́jìˈɾ̪ʷʉ̂ː ŋʷót̪ʰɛ̀ | wɐ́sɐ̀ŋɐ́t̪ʰɐ̀ɾ̪ɛ̀ ɲíːz̪ɛ̀t͡ɕʰɐ́t̪ʰɛ̀]

Alwâsa,

certain.morning,

tōkóppokkŏ

instance~REDUP

ishwôyuchûri

mind.aware.INF

nwo

GEN

twodwôryu

return.INF

nwo

COM

swôfûlw

accompany.ADN

ishîme

mind

chyu

CONN

moyori

perplex.NOM

nwotte,

COM,

watagattare

1SG.NOM

nîsette

awaken.PST

[Rounin Ryuuji]

OK then!

How's it feel?

[bradrn]

OK then!

How's it feel?

…sorry, what?

[Rounin Ryuuji]

OK then!

How's it feel?

…sorry, what?

To take up the challenge, of course.

[Neonnaut]

Now let's see you rebel against this hegemonic superstratum.

I live my life like a shot in the wind
If tomorrow don't come I know
I stole my share of fun for me
'Cause I'm too fast, too rad
I'm going wasted when I go
The cost of freedom's never free, no

1. pʰ tʰ ɾ̪ kʰ ɣ x β ŋʷ ŋ m {t͡ɕ, t͡ɕʰ} > f θ ð x q χ v m k b t
2. ɲ w > n kʷ
3. Cʷ Cʲ C̪ > C C C ! kʷ qʷ xʷ χʷ
4. ɐ(ː) ʉ(ː) > ɑ(ː) y(ː)
5. Stressed shwa becomes [e], all other shwas die.
6. {i, e} y {u,o} > ɛ œ ɔ / C{+uvular]
7. ɛ > ∅ /_#

在る朝、期々 意識り ぬを 復堉 ぬを 相ふうる 意芽 きゆ 悗堉りゆう にをつてい、我手方れ 起つてあつてい。
Alwâsa, twōkwóppokko ishwôyuchûri nwo twodwôryu nwo swôfūlwu ishîme chyu myuyuryû nyuotte, watagattare nîsechatte.
[ɑ̀ˈkʷɑ́ːzɑ̀ | sóːˈχɛ́fxɔ̀ ìqʷɔ́ːjìɕýːðì ˈnè snóːˈðì ˈnè ˈzóːvùːkʷù ìʑíːb ˈχʷœ̀ býjìˈðŷː móθ | kʷɑ́sɑ̀kɑ́θɑ̀ð níːzɛ̀tɑ́θ]

Alwâsa,

certain.morning,

tōkóppokkŏ

instance~REDUP

ishwôyuchûri

mind.aware.INF

nwo

GEN

twodwôryu

return.INF

nwo

COM

swôfûlw

accompany.ADN

ishîme

mind

chyu

CONN

moyori

perplex.NOM

nwotte,

COM,

watagattare

1SG.NOM

nîsette

awaken.PST

[Rounin Ryuuji]

And now, you are faced with the possibility of two futures. Tinasan civilisation continues on its march towards centralisation around Eastern High Tinasan varieties. We now progress to Late East Tinasan (assuming these radical shifts must have taken quite some time). Along one path, a group takes this language with them somewhere outside Tinasis, beyond the reach of any sort of hegemonic superstratum, to start a new civilisation. The language consequently suffers exceedingly little being altered by High Tinasan:

More: show

• [χ q] > [x k];
• Terminal stops become fricatives; terminal voiceless fricatives devoice;
• Terminal [θ] > [s] terminally after low-pitched vowels;
• [j w] are lost before high vowels and rounded vowels, respectively;
• [v] > [b]
• [œ] > [y]
• The pitch accent disappears, and is replaced by a stress accent, which this variety seems to have been trying to do for ages; structure words become unstressed, but still have a full pronunciation
• [ɛ e] > [e̞], [o ɔ] > [o̞]; endolabial compressed rounding manages to kindly leave well enough alone this time;
• I might assume they also switch to a fully phonetic system of writing.

あくわあざ、そおへふほ いくをおいしゆうぢ ね そのおぢ ね ぞおぶうく いぎいふ ふゐゆ びゆぢゆう もうと、 くわさかあさ゚そ にいぜたと。
Akwâza sōkhéfkho ikwôishyūdhi ne snôdhi ne zôbūku izhîf rhwyu byuidhyû môth, kwasakâthas nîzetath.
[ɑˈkʷɑː.zɑ | so̞ː'xe̞f.xo̞ i'kʷo̞ːi.ɕyː.ði ne̞ sno̞ːˈði ne̞ ˈzoː.buːkʷu i'ʑiːf ˈχʷy byiˈðŷː 'moːθ | kʷɑ.sɑ'kɑː.θɑs 'niː.ze̞.tɑθ]

Akwâza,

certain.morning,

sōkhéfkho

instance~REDUP

ikwôishyūdhi

mind.aware.INF

ne

GEN

snôdhi

return.INF

ne

COM

zôbūku

accompany.ADN

izhîf

mind

rhwyu

CONN

byuidhyû

perplex.NOM

môth,

COM,

kwasakâthas

1SG.NOM

nîzetath.

awaken.PST

It's ended up looking like some sort of eldritch incantation.

Next, the other route — ending up with a locally-flavoured form of East Tinasan, being quite a lot more conservative than out little endangered cousin language:

More: show

倝、斛頃 臆識り の 復り に 相ふる 意芽 きゆ 悗り にてい、朕れ 起け。
Orosa, todoku ishiwokori no todori ni shofuru isime chyu moyori nite, imere niseki.
[ ó(ᵝ).ɺó(ᵝ)ˑ.sà | tʷó(ᵝ).ðʷó(ᵝ)ˑ.kʷùᵝ í.ɕì.wó(ᵝ).kʷó(ᵝ)ˑ.ɺì nʷò(ᵝ) tʷó(ᵝ).ðʷó(ᵝ)ˑ.ɺì ɲì ɕᶣó(ᵝ).xʷù(ᵝ).ɺù(ᵝ) íˑ.s̪ì.mɛ̀ t͡ɕᶣỳ(ᵝ) mó(ᵝ).jᶣó(ᵝ).ɺì ɲí.tɛ̀ í.mɛ́ˑ.ɺɛ̀ ɲíˑ.sɛ̀.kʲì]
one.morning | usual mind.aware.INFINITIVE(=consciousness) GENITIVE return.INFINITIVE COMITATIVE accompany.ADNOMINAL mind CONNECTOR perplex.NOMINAL COMITATIVE | 1sg.NOMINATIVE awaken.PAST

Some very old-fashioned speakers in the area probably have trouble with the pitch accent, get the compressed endolabial rounding wrong, and probably drop off some low-pitched vowels in longer words. Some families still use it at home, but the children of them would probably find it embarrassing if other people knew.

Despite being fairly phonologically conservative, Later East Tinasan had quite a number of vocabulary innovations through the reanalysis of what were originally contracted forms as separate words, reinfored by the orthography replacing them; the fad for manners changed, and in literary narration, and among young children, a new first person pronoun emerged, though some of the unwieldy long versions were still used in speech, though they, too, were becoming old-fashioned, and sensible wore and its cognates becoming again the spoken form, where the formerly childish imere has begun making regional grounds.

That poor nameless local dialect had a good run, and perhaps it may flourish elsewhere, but, from the view of the people who remained in Tinasis, it was never heard from again. Truly is language standardisation both a blessing, and a curse.

(This means you get to play with it more without East Tinasan coming in to bother you.)

[Neonnaut]

Well if we're casting a vote, I'm voting on the branch that doesn't revert most of mine and bradrn's changes, and doesn't have that /t͡ɕᶣ ɕᶣ.../ invasive set of phonemes that we've had for the past 6 rounds.

[bradrn]

Well if we're casting a vote, I'm voting on the branch that doesn't revert most of mine and bradrn's changes, and doesn't have that /t͡ɕᶣ ɕᶣ.../ invasive set of phonemes that we've had for the past 6 rounds.

Agreed.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

I was intending for the one that was ongoing to continue, and the rest to just be a bit of fiction to explain the lack of further superstratum intrusions.

[Neonnaut]

• Genitive becomes a suffix.
• θ > l
• i > ɪ / ! when stressed, long, or following a vowel
• {f, xʷ} > ɸ
• x > F / F_
• ð > d
• o(ː) > ʊ(ː)
• ɑː y(ː) → oː i(ː)
• ɑ > o / kʷ_
• sn > hn; {s, ɸ} > h /_#
• x kʷ > g k
• Stress becomes pitch accent: monosyllables get falling tone, short stress gets high, long stressed gets rising except at the end of a word where it becomes high.

あくわあざ、そおへふほ いくをおいしゆうぢ ね そのおぢ ね ぞおぶうく いぎいふ ふゐゆ びゆぢゆう もうと、 くわさかあさ゚そ にいぜたと。
Akwâza sōgéfho ikwôishyūdi ne hnôdine zôbūku izhîh fy bîdŷ môl, kwasakâlah nîzetal.
[ɑkǒː.zɑ | sʊːgé̞ɸɸʊ ɪkʊ̌ːɪ.ɕiː.dɪ nê̞ hnʊːdíne̞ zʊ̌ː.buːku ɪʑǐːh ɸí biːdíː mʊ̂ːl | ko.sɑkǒː.lɑh nǐː.ze̞.tɑl]

Akwâza,

certain.morning,

sōkhéfkho

instance~REDUP

ikwôishyūdhine

mind.aware.INF.GEN

snôdhi

return.INF

ne

COM

zôbūku

accompany.ADN

izhîf

mind

rhwyu

CONN

byuidhyû

perplex.NOM

môth,

COM,

kwasakâthas

1SG.NOM

nîzetath.

awaken.PST

[Rounin Ryuuji]

A few very minor changes would probably take place after that:

• A perfective marker [nò], a contraction of an earlier perfective marker that would have probably been whittled down to [n] when all the schwas died that one time, and [o], a contracted form of the copula, replaces [tɑl] as the past tense marker, greatly regularising what I imagine is a rather wonkified paradigm;
• That goofy long first-person pronoun gets chopped down to [sɑkǒː];
• The comitative [nê̞] gets replaced with an alternate form in [dè̞], which is absorbed as a suffix; low pitch seems to generalise to inflectional suffixes;
• Regularised the Romanisation a little, and adjusted kana spellings to reflect new contractions, though the formerly-phonetic spelling remains otherwise fairly conservative.

あくわあざ、そおへふほ いくをおいしゆうぢでい そのおぢ ね ぞおぶうく いぎいふ ふゐゆ びゆぢゆう もうと、 さかあ にいぜの。
Akôza sûgéffu ikûishīdide hnūdíne zûbūku izhîh fi bīdīh mûhl, sakô nîzeno.

[ɑkǒː.zɑ | sʊːgé̞ɸɸʊ ɪkʊ̌ːɪ.ɕiː.dɪ.dè̞ hnʊːdínè̞ zʊ̌ː.buːku ɪʑǐːh ɸí biːdíː mʊ̂ːl | sɑkǒː nǐː.ze̞.nò]

Akôza,

certain.morning,

sûgéffu

instance~REDUP

ikûishīdide

mind.aware.INF.GEN

hnūdí

return.INF

de

COM

zûbūku

accompany.ADN

izhîh

mind

fi

CONN

bīdīh

perplex.NOM

mûl,

COM,

sakô

1SG.NOM

nîzeno.

awaken.PST

The structure's still holding pretty nicely.