Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Natural languages and linguistics
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Raphael
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Raphael »

hwhatting wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:27 pm I can't say how others do it, but when I mark, red is simply wrong (orthographic mistake or a form or construction is ungrammatical or a word or construction doesn't have the intended meaning), while blue marks corrections wrt idiomaticity / register / selection of better fitting words or expressions.
Danke!
Thank you!
Added comment: English student can be translated by German Schüler and Student; the former would be correct for someone at High School, while the latter for someone at college or university.
And then there's the English-language habit of calling someone who's way beyond the age for either school or college or university, but who likes to learn about, say, ancient Persian history in their spare time, a "student of ancient Persian history". I have no idea how I'd translate that into German in that context.
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jal
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by jal »

Es scheint, dass wir jetzt alle Deutsch üben. Deshalb dachte ich, es würde ein gutes Idee sein auch mal etwas auf Deutsch ze schreiben. Leider hat sich mein Deutsch nicht erbessert seit letztes Mal dass ich hier etwas auf Deutsch geschrieben hatte :(.
It seems we're all practicing German currently. So I thought it would be a good idea to write something in German as well. Unfortunately, my German hasn't improved since the last time I wrote something in German here.


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azhong
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by azhong »

(Ger-Eng-Chi)
Spielzeug will ich kaufen Ich will ein Spielzeug kaufen, Ich will ein Spielzeug kaufen“, sagte der kleine Junge fröhlich, der mit seinem Vater ins 24-Stunden-Geschäft/ in den Spätkauf/ in den Gemischtwarenladen kam. „Eines zu kaufen Eins kaufen. Ich will ein Spielzeug kaufen.“
“I wanna buy a toy. I wanna buy a toy,” said the little boy happily, who came to the convenience store with his father. “ :?: To buy one. I wanna buy a toy.”
「我要買玩具,我要買玩具。」......「買一個,我要買玩具。」(Directly quoted from what I’ve heard.)
More: show
das Spielzeug; no pl.
der Junge: boy pl. Jungen
– das Mädchen: girl
das 24-Stunden-Geschäft; -e
– die Stunde
etw. mischen: to mix sth | mischte, gemischt |
der Laden: shop pl. Läden
(Ger-Eng)
Ich lerne kürzlich* seit kurzem Deutsch. Jeden Tag komme ich in den Gemischtwarenladen und bringe meinen Computer mit, um hier freies das freie W-LAN zu benutzen.
Jeden Tag komme ich mit meinem Computer in den Gemischtwarenladen,...
(I have been learning German recently. Every day I come to the convenience store bringing my computer (along) to use free WIFI here.)
More: show
kürzlich means "a short while ago"; it marks a point in time, not a period.
kurz: short
der Spätkauf; [late-buy] later night corner shop, convenience store
-- der Kauf: purchase pl. Käufe
--c.f. Tante-Emma-Laden:
---- die Tante: aunt
---- der Laden: shop pl. Läden
der Computer pl. -
jmdn. mitbringen: bring sth along | brachte mit, mitgebracht |
frei: free
das W-LAN

(Ger-Eng-Spanish)
Wir brauchen Wasser, Elektrizität, Vögel und Bäume.
(We need water, electricity, birds and trees.
Necesitamos agua, electricidad, pájaros y árboles. (From Una casa propia [literally "One House Own"], translated from an English book A House of My Own (2015) by Sandra Cisneros.)*
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das Wasser; -
die Elektrizität; no pl.
der Vogel pl. Vögel
der Baum; pl. Bäume
[*] Ich habe Spanisch noch nie gelernt und lerne es jetzt auch nicht...
(I've never learned Spanish and I'm not learning it. I've just copypasted it from a cyberpal's post, for those who are interested in learning Spanish.)
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das Spanisch
Last edited by azhong on Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Qwynegold
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Qwynegold »

はー。明日友達とストックホルムプライドを見に行く予定があったが、今は「会いたいが元気じゃないけどプライドに行きたくない」と言ってる。健康の具合は仕方がないが、泥縄式予定をこう取り消すのは初めてじゃない。
Haa. Ashita tomodachi to Sutokkuhorumu Puraido wo mi ni iku yotei ga atta ga, ima wa "aitai ga genki ja nai kedo Puraido ni ikitakunai" to itte ru. Kenkō no guai wa shikata ga nai ga, doronawashiki yotei wo kō torikesu no wa hajimete ja nai.
Sigh. I had plans to go and watch Stockholm Pride with a friend tomorrow, but now he's saying "I want to meet, but I'm not feeling well, so I don't want to go to Pride". The condition of his health can't be helped, but this isn't the first time he has cancelled plans in the last minute like this.
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azhong
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by azhong »

Von der Tür her kam einen Klang* ein lautes Geräusch. Ich drehte/wandte meinen Kopf dazu dahin aber sah nichts. / dazu, sah aber nichts.
There was a loud sound in the direction of the door. I turned my head toward it but saw nothing.*
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Klang normally is used for characterising (der Klang deiner Stimme "the sound of your voice", not for individual sounds.
der Klang pl. Klänge
die Tür
das Geräusch; -e
etw. (um)drehen: turn sth; | drehte, gedreht |
sich.ACC wenden: turn (sth) reg. or | wandte, gewandt |
[*] I think the translation should be in italics?
Last edited by azhong on Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hwhatting
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:36 am Es scheint, dass wir jetzt alle Deutsch üben. Deshalb dachte ich, es würde eine gutes Idee sein*1), auch mal etwas auf Deutsch zu schreiben. Leider hat sich mein Deutsch nicht verbessert seit dem letzten Mal, als ich hier etwas auf Deutsch geschrieben hatte :(.
It seems we're all practicing German currently. So I thought it would be a good idea to write something in German as well. Unfortunately, my German hasn't improved since the last time I wrote something in German here.
*1) I'd use the simple Konjunktiv II here - es wäre ein gute Idee...
azhong wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:36 pm (Ger-Eng-Chi)
Spielzeug will ich kaufen. Spielzeug will ich kaufen Ich will ein Spielzeug kaufen, ich will ein Spielzeug kaufen“, sagte der kleine Junge fröhlich, der kam mit seinem Vater ins 24-Stunden-Geschäft/ in den Spätkauf *2) in den Gemischtwarenladen kam. „Eines zu kaufen. Ich will ein Spielzeug kaufen.“
“I wanna buy a toy. I wanna buy a toy,” said the little boy happily, who came to the convenience store with his father. “ :?: To buy one. I wanna buy a toy.”
*2) These things are rare in Germany, because mostly shops have to close for the night and on Sundays, except at petrol stations, train stations and airports.

Ich lerne seit kurzem*3) Deutsch. Jeden Tag komme ich in den Gemischtwarenladen und bringe meinen Computer mit, um hier das freie W-LAN zu benutzen.
Jeden Tag komme ich mit meinem Computer in den Gemischtwarenladen,...
(I am learning German recently. Everyday Every day I come to the convenience store bringing my computer (along) to use free WIFI here.)[/quote]
*3) kürzlich means "a short while ago"; it marks a point in time, not a period.

Free WiFi is also not something which is frequent in small shops in Germany, and they definitely wouldn't want you to hang around there using your computer- that's more of a thing they allow at places where you consume food and drinks. Free WiFi at shops is mostly so you can check offers etc. on your smart phone.
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Linguoboy
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Linguoboy »

hwhatting wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:57 amIch lerne seit kurzem*3) Deutsch.
(I am learning German recently.)
Ach nein, der Urfehler englischsprachiger Deutschen!
Oh no, the classic English-speaking German mistake!

"I have been learning German recently."
hwhatting
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

azhong wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:02 am Es gab in Richtung Tür einen lauten Klang Von der Tür her kam ein lautes Geräusch*1)*2). Ich drehte/wandte meinen Kopf dahin aber sah nichts. / dazu, sah aber nichts.*3)
There was a loud sound in the direction of the door. I turned my head toward it but saw nothing.*
*1) There is no real mistake in the literal translation except for using Klang, but it sounds very unidimoatic to me.
*2) Klang normally is used for characterising (der Klang deiner Stimme "the sound of your voice", not for individual sounds, but can be used for that as well in certain set circumstance, like when talking about music.
*3) Both syntactic variants are okay.
Last edited by hwhatting on Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
hwhatting
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

Linguoboy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:08 am
hwhatting wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:57 amIch lerne seit kurzem*3) Deutsch.
(I am learning German recently.)
Ach nein, der Urfehler englischsprachiger Deutscher!
Oh no, the classic English-speaking German mistake!

"I have been learning German recently."
Ich habe azhong's English nicht überprüft; ich denke, es gibt da noch mehr unidiomatische Stellen oder Fehler, aber ich überlasse das den englischen Muttersprachlern. :-)
I didn't check azhonhg's English; I think there are more unidiomatic passages or mistakes there, but I leave that to the English native Speakers. :-)
Я не проверял английский текст ажонга; я думаю, что там есть ещё больше неидиоматических мест и ошибок, но я оставляю это для тех, для которых агнлийский - родной язык. :-)
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Linguoboy
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Linguoboy »

Es tut mir leid, H-W. Ich habe die rote Schrift gesehen und hab gedacht, dass es du warst, der die Korrektur gemacht hatte. Jetzt kapier ich, dass das der azhong war.
I'm sorry, H-W. I saw the red letters and thought that it was you who had made the corrections. Now I see that it was Azhong.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

Linguoboy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:39 am Es tut mir leid, H-W. Ich habe die rote Schrift gesehen und hab gedacht, dass es du warst, der die Korrektur gemacht hatte. Jetzt kapier ich, dass das der azhong war.
I'm sorry, H-W. I saw the red letters and thought that it was you who had made the corrections. Now I see that it was Azhong.
Na ja, die Korrektur habe ich schon gemacht, aber halt nur im deutschen Text. :-)
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jal
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:57 am*1) I'd use the simple Konjunktiv II here - es wäre eine gute Idee...
Oder?
Right?


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hwhatting
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:17 am
hwhatting wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:57 am*1) I'd use the simple Konjunktiv II here - es wäre eine gute Idee...
Oder?
Right?
Yes, absolutely. :-)
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azhong
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by azhong »

hwhatting wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:57 am Ich lerne seit kurzem*3) Deutsch.
...it (=kurz) uses the neuter... form because that is the default for an adjective not modifying a noun or referring to a noun.
Das ist genau, was ich nicht wusste. Ich hatte die Regel bisher nicht gewusst gekannt. Danke schön, Hans.
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The basic rule is that you use kennen with nouns, wissen with complement clauses and infinitives
That's exactly what I didn't know. I didn't know the rule until now. Thank you, Hans.

Heißt der kleine Junge in diesem Märchen auch Hans?
Is the boy in that fairy tale also named Hans?

... Nein, Ich habe Unrecht. Er heißt Hänsel. Und seine Schwester heißt Gretel.
... No, I'm wrong. He's named Hansel. And his sister is named Gretel.
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das Märchen
unrecht: wrong, incorrect
->das Unrecht
Last edited by azhong on Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hwhatting
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

azhong wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:47 pm Das ist genau, was ich nicht wusste. Ich hatte die Regel bisher nicht gekannt. Danke schön, Hans.
That's exactly what I didn't know. I didn't know the rule until now. Thank you, Hans.
Heißt der kleine Junge in diesem Märchen auch Hans?
Is the boy in that fairy tale also named Hans?
Unfortunately, I don't live in a fairy tale ;-)
Ich lebe leider nicht in einem Märchen.
Helaas leef ik niet in een sprookje.
Malheureusement, je ne vis pas dans un conte de fées.
Purtroppo no vivo in una favola.
Lamentablemente no vivo en un cuento de hadas.
Non vivo in fabula.
К сожалению я не живу в сказке.
Niestety nie żyję w bajce.
Sayangnya, saya tidak hidup di negeri dongeng.
Travis B.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Travis B. »

Man benutzt "kennen" mit "die Regel" statt "wissen"? Ich hatte gedacht, dass man "kennen" mit Menschen und ähnlich benutzt.
One uses "kennen" with "die Regel" instead of "wissen"? I thought that one uses "kennen" with people and like.
Last edited by Travis B. on Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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jal
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by jal »

Travis B. wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:06 amOne uses "kennen" with "die Regel" in stead of "wissen"? I thought that one uses "kennen" with people and like.
Isn't that the same as in French? It is in Dutch.


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Travis B.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Travis B. »

jal wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:26 am
Travis B. wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:06 amOne uses "kennen" with "die Regel" in stead of "wissen"? I thought that one uses "kennen" with people and like.
Isn't that the same as in French? It is in Dutch.
Das einzige Französisch, das ich sprechen kann, ist "je ne parle pas français" und "je parle anglais".
The only French I can speak is "je ne parle pas français" and "je parle anglais".
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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Emily
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Emily »

i don't think it's a people vs. non-people distinction, i think kennen is more like "be familiar with" and wissen is more along the lines of knowing a fact
hwhatting
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

The distinction is syntactical:
The basic rule is that you use kennen with nouns (and pronouns standing in for them), wissen with complement clauses and infinitives (and pronouns standing in for them).
There are some exceptions for the advanced learner (wissen plus noun is possible in poetic langauge and some regiolects; there is the highly literary construction wissen um + NOUN "have knowledge of", you kann have complement clauses after kennen when you link them through a pronoun (Kennst du das, wenn den ganzen Tag nichts klappt? "Do you know that situation, when nothing goes right the whole day Long?") etc., but the basic rule is good for most cases you'll encounter when speaking German.
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