Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Natural languages and linguistics
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jal
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:55 pmLinguoboy heeft arendsogen, niets ontgaat hem.
Just like in German, you can also switch "hem" and "niets" for emphasis ("hem ontgaat niets").

Deutsch ist eine frustrierende Sprache: es ist so ähnlich wie niederländisch, dass es, mit ein bisschen Übung, einfach zu verstehen ist (jedenfalls geschriebenes Deutsch), aber es ist oft auch so unterschiedlich von niederländisch, dass es ganz schwer ist fließend Deutsch zu schreiben, ohne Niederlandzismen anzuwenden.
German is a frustrating language: it's so similar to Dutch that, with a bit of practice, one can easily understand it (at least written German), but it's often also so different from Dutch that it's quite hard to write fluent German, without utilizing Dutchisms.


JAL
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Raphael
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Raphael »

jal wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:54 pm Deutsch ist eine frustrierende Sprache: es ist so ähnlich wie niederländisch, dass es, mit ein bisschen Übung, einfach zu verstehen ist (jedenfalls geschriebenes Deutsch), aber es ist oft auch so unterschiedlich von niederländisch, dass es ganz schwer ist fließend Deutsch zu schreiben, ohne Niederlandzismen anzuwenden.
German is a frustrating language: it's so similar to Dutch that, with a bit of practice, one can easily understand it (at least written German), but it's often also so different from Dutch that it's quite hard to write fluent German, without utilizing Dutchisms.


JAL
Interessanterweise ist, wenn auch nicht gerade überaschenderweise, ist das auch, wie ich Niederländisch sehe.
Interestingly, though not surprisingly, that is also how I see Dutch.
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azhong
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by azhong »

1. Gestern abend habe ich auf dem Dach gesessen und den Himmel angesehen. Es hatte auf meinem Dach keinen schönen Garten zu sehen gegeben.
(Last night I sat on the roof and looked at the sky. On my roof there was no nice garden to see.
2. Am Himmel gab es viele Sterne, nur aber einen Mond.
(There were many stars in the sky, but only one moon.
3. Da habe ich darüber nachgedacht.
(There, I thought about it.
4. Ich habe dann vermutet, dass es so war, weil der Mond zu groß wäre, deshalb könnte es einen zweiten Mond nicht bestehen.
(I then supposed that it was because the moon would be too big, so there couldn't be a second moon.
5. Viele Sterne könnten es am Himmel bestehen, gerade weil Sterne alle sehr klein wären.
(There could be many stars in the sky precisely because stars were all very small.
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Raphael
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

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azhong wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:54 am 1. Gestern abend habe ich auf dem Dach gesessen und den Himmel angesehen. Es gab auf meinem Dach keinen schönen Garten zu sehen.
(Last night I sat on the roof and looked at the sky. On my roof there was no nice garden to see.
2. Am Himmel gab es viele Sterne, aber nur einen Mond.
(There were many stars in the sky, but only one moon.
3. Darüber habe ich nachgedacht.
(There, I thought about it.
4. Ich habe dann vermutet, dass es so war, weil der Mond zu groß ist, deshalb könnte es keinen zweiten Mond geben.
(I then supposed that it was because the moon would be too big, so there couldn't be a second moon.
5. Viele Sterne könnten es am Himmel geben, gerade weil Sterne alle sehr klein sind.
(There could be many stars in the sky precisely because stars were all very small.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:54 pm Just like in German, you can also switch "hem" and "niets" for emphasis ("hem ontgaat niets").
Good to know!
jal wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:54 pm Deutsch ist eine frustrierende Sprache: es ist so ähnlich wie Niederländisch, dass es, mit ein bisschen Übung, einfach zu verstehen ist (jedenfalls geschriebenes Deutsch), aber es ist oft auch so unterschiedlich zu Niederländisch, dass es ganz schwer ist, fließend Deutsch zu schreiben, ohne Niederlandizismen zu verwenden.
German is a frustrating language: it's so similar to Dutch that, with a bit of practice, one can easily understand it (at least written German), but it's often also so different from Dutch that it's quite hard to write fluent German, without utilizing Dutchisms.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

Raphael wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:01 am
azhong wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:54 am 3. Darüber habe ich nachgedacht.
(There, I thought about it.
I think what azhong wants to say is Dort (= auf dem Dach) habe ich darüber nachgedacht.
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azhong
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by azhong »

hwhatting wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:21 am
Raphael wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:01 am 3. Darüber habe ich nachgedacht.
(There, I thought about it.
I think what azhong wants to say is Dort (= auf dem Dach) habe ich darüber nachgedacht.
Genau. Also passt "da" hier nicht, sondern "dort"?
(Exactly. So "da" doesn't fit here, but "dort"?)

Edit: Or maybe not so "exactly"? I was told "da" can refer to either "a place" or "a time point". Thinking about it more carefully, I was more using it to refer to "a time point". I.e., my English translation should is wrong and be changed for
"At the time, I reflect on it."
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Linguoboy
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Linguoboy »

azhong wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:12 am
hwhatting wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:21 am
Raphael wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:01 am 3. Darüber habe ich nachgedacht.
(There, I thought about it.
I think what azhong wants to say is Dort (= auf dem Dach) habe ich darüber nachgedacht.
Genau. Also passt "da" hier nicht, sondern "dort"?
(Exactly. So "da" doesn't fit here, but "dort"?)
IME adverbial da more often has a temporal reference than spatial, usually being equivalent to "then" (= dann) or "at that time" (= damals). In fact, that's how I read your sentence and I didn't see anything wrong with it.

(Colloquially, da can also replaced compounds like darüber and I wonder if that's why Raphael thought it was unnecessary.)
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

azhong wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:12 am Genau. Also passt "da" hier nicht, sondern "dort"?
(Exactly. So "da" doesn't fit here, but "dort"?)

Edit: Or maybe not so "exactly"? I was told "da" can refer to either "a place" or "a time point". Thinking about it more carefully, I was more using it to refer to "a time point". I.e., my English translation should is wrong and be changed for
"At the time, I reflect on it."
As linguoboy said, da is good for both the spatial and tempotal meaning; I just used dort to clarify for Raphael what you intended to say. If what you wanted to express was a point in time, dort doesn 't work (it's only spatial) and you need to use da.
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dɮ the phoneme
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by dɮ the phoneme »

日本語を二年半勉強しなかったんだけど、今大学院に入っていて、来学期日本語の授業を取るつもり!

I haven't really studied Japanese in two and a half years, but now that I've entered grad school, I'm planning to take a Japanese class next quarter!
Ye knowe eek that, in forme of speche is chaunge
With-inne a thousand yeer, and wordes tho
That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge
Us thinketh hem; and yet they spake hem so,
And spedde as wel in love as men now do.

(formerly Max1461)
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jal
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by jal »

dɮ the phoneme wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:38 pmI haven't really studied Japanese in two and a half years, but now that I've entered grad school, I'm planning to take a Japanese class next quarter!
Geil.
Cool.


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azhong
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by azhong »

Es gibt keinen Eimer, der einen Teich aufnehmen kann.
(There is no bucket that can contain a pond.

Es gibt kein Schiff, das einen Ozean holen kann.
(There is no ship that can fetch an ocean.

Es gibt kein Flugzeug, das die Sonne tragen kann.
(There is no airplane that can carry the sun.

Es gibt keinen Junge, der nie aufwachsen wird.
(There is no boy who will never grow up.

Es gibt keine alte Person, die nie verscheiden wird.
(There is no old person that will never leave.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

azhong wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:04 am Es gibt keine alte Person, die nie dahinscheiden wird.
(There is no old person that will never leave.
At least in my dialect, only the past participle verschieden of verscheiden is used, either as adjective (der kürzlich verschiedene Präsident "the recently deceased president") or in the perfect tense (der Präsident ist vor kurzem verschieden "the president passed away recently").
Concerning your English sentence, I'd rather use "pass away" than "leave"; I guess the latter can mean "to die" in the right context, but in the sentence you wrote, that wouldn't be my first interpretation.
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azhong
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by azhong »

1. In den ersten Wochen nachdem ihren Mann dahingekommen ist, hat sie ihr fest jede Nacht mit Tränen das Gesicht gewaschen.
2. Diese Nächten haben geschienen, ungewöhnlich ruhiger zu sein, sie hat so einsam gefühlt und konnte schlafen nicht.


(1. In the first weeks after her husband passed away, she washed her face with tears almost every night.
2. Those nights seemed to be unusually quieter; she felt so lonely and couldn't sleep.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by Linguoboy »

azhong wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:26 am 1. In den ersten Wochen nachdem ihren Mann dahingekommen ist, hat sie ihr fest jede Nacht mit Tränen das Gesicht gewaschen.
(1. In the first weeks after her husband passed away, she washed her face with tears almost every night.
I suggest you have another try at the German version. You've really scrambled the syntax of the main clause.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

azhong wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:26 am 1. In den ersten Wochen nachdem ihren Mann dahingeschieden / verschieden ist, hat sie ihr fast jede Nacht mit Tränen ihr Gesicht mit Tränen gewaschen.
2. Diese Nächten schienen ungewöhnlich ruhiger zu sein*1), sie hat so einsam gefühlt und konnte schlafen nicht.


(1. In the first weeks after her husband passed away, she washed her face with tears almost every night.
2. Those nights seemed to be unusually quieter; she felt so lonely and couldn't sleep.
*1) zu sein is not wrong, but not needed if you want to be parallel with the English text.
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jal
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by jal »

hwhatting, I think you missed the last part of the last sentence:
sie hat sich so einsam gefühlt und könnte nicht schlafen.
I think?


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azhong
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by azhong »

Ah, entschuldigt, offenbar habe ich eine schreckliche Übung gemacht.
(Ah, sorry, obviously I've made a terrible exercise.)

Aber ich glaube, dass sowohl "konnte" wie auch "könnte" grammatisch wären?
(But I think that "konnte" and "könnte" would be both grammatical?
...sie hat sich so einsam gefühlt und konnte/könnte nicht schlafen.
"Konnte" ist Vergangenheitsform, "könnte" ist Konjunktiv II.
("Konnte" is past tense, "könnte" is subjunctive II.
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:31 am hwhatting, I think you missed the last part of the last sentence:
sie hat sich so einsam gefühlt und könnte nicht schlafen.
I think?
Yes, indeed, I missed that part.
azhong wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:44 pm Aber ich glaube, dass sowohl "konnte" wie auch "könnte" grammatikalisch wären?
(But I think that "konnte" and "könnte" would be both grammatical?
...sie hat sich so einsam gefühlt und konnte/könnte nicht schlafen.
"Konnte" ist Vergangenheitsform, "könnte" ist Konjunktiv II.
("Konnte" is past tense, "könnte" is subjunctive II.
Only konnte makes sense here - it's a statement of fact that she couldn't sleep:
… sie hat sich so einsam gefühlt und konnte nicht schlafen.
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jal
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Re: Language Practice (Help your fluency)

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:33 amOnly konnte makes sense here - it's a statement of fact that she couldn't sleep:
… sie hat sich so einsam gefühlt und konnte nicht schlafen.
Entschuldiging, ich vermische immer "konnte" und "könnte" miteinander, vielleicht da es so viele Verben gibt, die ein Umlaut haben...
Apologies, I always mix up "konnte" and "könnte", perhaps because there's so many verbs with an umlaut...


JAL
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