Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:54 pm
Does anyone else use tag or (which I invariably pronounce as /ər/ [ʁ̩ˤ]) at the end of sentences in English? (I myself use it very frequently without even thinking.) I know that tag oder is very normal in spoken German, and it seems to be pretty similar in meaning. I never see it in written English, even English that is meant to be informal or to reflect everyday speech.
I've seen this on Twitter, with both "or" and "so", and even included it in my syntax book (2018).
It's quite standard to say e.g. "Are we leaving now, or what?" It feels to me like the meaning is the same; the "what" has just been elided.
Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:54 pm
Does anyone else use tag or (which I invariably pronounce as /ər/ [ʁ̩ˤ]) at the end of sentences in English? (I myself use it very frequently without even thinking.) I know that tag oder is very normal in spoken German, and it seems to be pretty similar in meaning. I never see it in written English, even English that is meant to be informal or to reflect everyday speech.
I've seen this on Twitter, with both "or" and "so", and even included it my syntax book (2018).
It's quite standard to say e.g. "Are we leaving now, or what?" It feels to me like the meaning is the same; the "what" has just been elided.
zompist wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 5:17 pm
It's quite standard to say e.g. "Are we leaving now, or what?" It feels to me like the meaning is the same; the "what" has just been elided.
OK, this feels much more familiar to me. A related construction which I use quite a lot is ‘or something’, to indicate (I think) uncertainty.
Interestingly, I use tag or what far less frequently than tag or. It feels like something that someone would write as dialogue rather than what I am personally familiar with IRL.
I use it sometimes, usually trailing off. I tend to use "So," at the beginning of a sentence a lot more, but there's a good amount of overlap of them both being used. Example:
linguistcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:43 pm
I use it sometimes, usually trailing off. I tend to use "So," at the beginning of a sentence a lot more, but there's a good amount of overlap of them both being used. Example:
"So, was someone going to eat this, or...?"
Ah, good example! This feels much more natural to me.
Over in the British Politics Guide thread in Ephemera, sangi39 just posted
sangi39 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:28 amb) Richmond has returned Conservative MPs for over a century with absolute majorities all but twice (relative majorities in 1989 and 1997, with 5% and %20 leads respectively),
Until today, I had thought the terms "absolute majority" and "relative majority" would only be used in German ("absolute Mehrheit" and "relative Mehrheir"), and English used "majority" and "plurality" instead. Could someone clear this up for me?
Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:34 am
Over in the British Politics Guide thread in Ephemera, sangi39 just posted
sangi39 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 5:28 amb) Richmond has returned Conservative MPs for over a century with absolute majorities all but twice (relative majorities in 1989 and 1997, with 5% and %20 leads respectively),
Until today, I had thought the terms "absolute majority" and "relative majority" would only be used in German ("absolute Mehrheit" and "relative Mehrheir"), and English used "majority" and "plurality" instead. Could someone clear this up for me?
I think it might be a UK vs. US (or North American vs. Elsewhere?) thing? "Plurality" seems to be used in the US where "relative majority" (or even just "majority") is used in the UK, and "majority" seems to be used in the US where "absolute majority" is used in the UK
Could definitely be wrong, though. That's just how I've seen the terms used (it's always thrown me that in the UK we say "majority" when we don't mean "more than half" unless we're specifying that we do indeed actually mean "more than half")
In German, the word "Kindergarten" generally describes what in the USA might be called "preschool", that is, a less formal institution where kids spend the last few years before regular school. But in the USA, the word "kindergarten" seems to describe a kind of "zeroth grade" of the regular school system. Did I get this right?
Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:57 am
In German, the word "Kindergarten" generally describes what in the USA might be called "preschool", that is, a less formal institution where kids spend the last few years before regular school. But in the USA, the word "kindergarten" seems to describe a kind of "zeroth grade" of the regular school system. Did I get this right?
Pretty much, but in practice it's somewhere in between "school" and "preschool". It's often just half a day, and it's not exactly academic... lots of making art, listening to stories, etc. It's optional in most states.
Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:57 am
In German, the word "Kindergarten" generally describes what in the USA might be called "preschool", that is, a less formal institution where kids spend the last few years before regular school. But in the USA, the word "kindergarten" seems to describe a kind of "zeroth grade" of the regular school system. Did I get this right?
In Australia, 'zeroth grade' is an entirely accurate description. I'm surprised to hear that it could only be half a day in the US, and even optional - that is never the case in Australia, where it's simply the first school year. It's true that it's less academic than higher grades, but then first and second grades aren't hugely academic either.
Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:57 am
In German, the word "Kindergarten" generally describes what in the USA might be called "preschool", that is, a less formal institution where kids spend the last few years before regular school. But in the USA, the word "kindergarten" seems to describe a kind of "zeroth grade" of the regular school system. Did I get this right?
Indonesia has the TK (an abbreviation of a calaue of Kindergarten 'taman keanakan', more literally childhood park), where children aged 5 learn basic reading, writing, and math skills. This is just half a day and less academic than the following SD (sekola dasar lit 'basic school') where children aged 6 to 12 compete with each other for the best grade and the first rank.
I found it surprising that Indonesian children can spell and add/subtract before age 6. This is not what usually happens in the original German Kindergarten.
What do you call a, well, "place", "spot", or "seat" - as you can see, I'm not at all sure which word to use - in a school or a kindergarten? Which word or term would people usually use in the context of, for instance, a political argument over whether an area has enough "spots", "seats", or "places" in school and kindergarten for all the children?
Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:48 am
What do you call a, well, "place", "spot", or "seat" - as you can see, I'm not at all sure which word to use - in a school or a kindergarten? Which word or term would people usually use in the context of, for instance, a political argument over whether an area has enough "spots", "seats", or "places" in school and kindergarten for all the children?
‘Spot’ is a little colloquial, ‘place’ is somewhat more formal. ‘Seat’ would be weird.
Does anyone here associate truly back [ɑ] by itself (i.e. not already adjacent to /r w h kw gw/) with /ɑr/? I ask because there's someone at my work named Ganesh, and when I hear him referred to by any of my other Indian coworkers I can't help but hear his name as Ga/r/nesh even though his does not actually have a /r/ in it?
Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:11 pm
Does anyone here associate truly back [ɑ] by itself (i.e. not already adjacent to /r w h kw gw/) with /ɑr/?
Yes, but then I’m non-rhotic. (So I guess I don’t have phonemic /ɑr/ in the first place, though I do associate it with orthographic ⟨ar⟩.)
I'm rhotic yet when I watch British, Australian, or New Zealander TV I naturally map [ɑ] to /ɑr/ without thinking about it except when it maps to my /æ/ (i.e. BATH), where then I don't.
