Twin Aster

[Raholeun]

You have an enviable inhibition when it comes to writing lore. I'm rather jealous, if not awed by those who can come up with names and dates with apparent ease. I have trouble picking stuff like that, establishing and sticking with it and it can be a disinhibition to conworlding.

I'm afraid I'm not quite understanding here. Could you please rephrase?

It hardly matters, but as Jonlang sort of broached a very similar theme before (although my issue pertains more to creation of lore, rather than lexicon) I might as well quote them:

Does anyone else struggle with coming up with a word for something which sounds right? I know we can simply come up with roots and derivations and apply them arbitrarily and build a lexicon fairly quickly; but for me, I too often think "but that doesn't sound like 'grass' to me"; or "that sounds more like 'carry' than 'bring'", etc. Maybe I get too hung up on words sounding "right". For example, the word ipsen came to my mind and I instantly knew that it means 'know' somehow, and that's how it stayed. I cannot, however, think of a word, or even a root, which I can apply to 'speak/speech' - which is annoying because I could then give at least one of my conlangs a name.

[ophois]

The Rad-Priests of Oqsh

Oqsh (whose name has existed for some time and wasn't made up because of Oklo—it might be spelt different but I've mentioned it in this thread before) is a polity somewhere within the Burning Mountains (presumably on the northern face and not "in the elbow"). I really, really want to do like that nuclear semiotics video suggested and have literal rad-priests, but I want to do it in a way that sounds at least halfway plausible and it makes me ponder the question of whether figuring out nuclear power earlier would be realistic, and how that might affect the society if so.

I'm going to throw stuff to the wall and see if any of it sticks.

Oqsh has always been a feared, bellicose recluse state tucked away somewhere on Íröd. Mountains are sometimes known for what is mined of them, and that seems as good a starting point as any. I found this thanks to the august Dr. Wik E. Pedia, and it seems to say that the Oklo reactors were at some point below ground? Which makes it reasonable that they'd know something was down there thanks to an iconic subterranean cave system with a notable groundwater reservoir. My guess is there'd be a sort of natural reactor site that was accessible thanks to said caves, and that—after much trial, error, and loss of life—at least some of the basics were worked out. Part of this would translate into the sort of weighty aesthetic that I've had in mind for Oqsh for a while (a subtle nod to radiation protection).

Unlike a putative cult of radiation as discussed in the present era on Earth, the Oqsh cult seems like it'd be a mix of ancient history mythologized and actual scientific or practical observation. I think an inversion in order in that the Oqsh cult not only does not clash with mainstream science, it encourages it, in large part to better understand the phenomena at play in radioactivity. zompist has mentioned the trope of the lame smith possibly owing its origins to the use of arsenic in historical metalsmithing, and I wonder if something similar would be at play here. The vomiting acolyte (which would be hilarious since it's already a trope in Caberdom that having a weak stomach is a sign of good character—i.e. you literally can't stomach bad deeds—and saying of someone that they have a strong stomach is a grave insult), maybe? A trope that death is, ideally, painful (i.e. that you suffer and die from eventual cumulative radiation exposure)?

This also suggests to me that it's possible (whether it's likely is another story entirely, but possible is the target for now) that, with enough savvy and good fortune, other, similar reactors could be made if knowledge got out in some form or other, and what sort of effects that would have on Írödian history. I do know that fusion is known in the "present day", and helium-3 is used a lot; it's the entire reason for the colonies around Náirad—they simply scoop it up from the night side of the planet, process it while still in the B system, and then cart it off back to Íröd for use.

There should likely be an Oqshite cult presence in the Patchwork States.angu

Great stuff. Two things of note: First, modern nuclear power plants use steam as an intermediary. Might the proto-Oqshites simply use nuclear-powered steam engines, without converting into electricity?

Also, Oklo and Akli made me think of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aklo. Just a funny coincidence, but what will the Oqshite language be like?

[Man in Space]

Great stuff.

Thank you!

Two things of note: First, modern nuclear power plants use steam as an intermediary. Might the proto-Oqshites simply use nuclear-powered steam engines, without converting into electricity?

That's more or less what I was thinking initially. The steam would be used for in-situ megaprojects and the like. Only with later, further study would they even begin to understand what was going on.

Also, Oklo and Akli made me think of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aklo. Just a funny coincidence, but what will the Oqshite language be like?

You're in luck. Let's find out.

Proto-Oqsh

/*m *n̪ *n *nʲ *ŋ/ m ņ n ñ g
/*p *t̪ *t *tʲ *k/ p d t j k
/*β *ð *l *j *h/ b ð l y h

/*i *ɨ *u/ i u w
/*ɛ *a *ɔ/ e a o

/*a *ḁ *a̰ *a͈/ a å ã à (i.e., modal, slack, creaky, ballistic)

ββ ðð ll jj hh > pβ t̪ð ts tʲj ŋ / %_
N > Ø / _NN
[+cor +α POA] [+cor +β POA] > [+cor +α POA] [+cor +α POA]
a ɛ ɨ i > ɵ œ ʉ y / _P, P_
β ð l j > ɸ θ ɬ s / V͈_
Tt̪ Tt Ttʲ > t̪θ ts tʲʃ
N^Tn̪ N^Tn N^Tnʲ > n̪t̪ nt nʲtʲ

*tboņĝñà [tβɔŋnʲa͈]
*yyìb [tʲjy͈ɸ]
*bõ [βœ̰]
*ñuyàlũ [nʲɨja͈ɬɨ̰]
*lñiñ [lnʲinʲ]
*bwtim [βutim]
*bnòð [βnɔ͈θ]
*tèmp [tɛ͈mb]
*ñe̊bya [nʲɛ̥βja]
*ĝmũ [ŋmʉ̰]
*ņũb [n̪ʉ̰ɸ]
*tuðĝũdòm [tɨðŋɨ̰t̪ɔ͈m]
*ĝo [ŋɔ]
*yũ [jɨ̰]
*knõyò [knɔ̰jɔ͈]
*ĝĩ [ŋḭ]
*tjiñĝa [tʲʃiŋŋa]
*ĝunyuĝubbĝẽb [ŋɨnjɨŋɨββŋɛ̰β]
*ñnåĝ [n̪t̪ḁŋ]
*nnàb [nta͈ɸ]
*jĝðõlĝmuñ [tʲŋðɔ̰lŋmʉnʲ]
*mam [mɵm]
*ñoðlòñu [nʲɔðlɔ͈nʲɨ]
*jnůlðe̊h [tʲnʲɨ̥lðɛ̥h]
*tyòmp [tjɔ͈mp]
*ĝèñw [ŋɛ͈nʲu]
*ñeb [nʲœβ]
*ne [nɛ]
*ĝum [ŋʉm]
*nůb [nʉ̥β]
*yùtãñ [jɨ͈ta̰nʲ]
*ĝìbņũ [ŋy͈ɸn̪ɨ̰]
*lñẁmp [lnʲu͈mp]
*ĝnw̃ð [ŋnṵð]
*tbůðñemnèbĝe̊ [tβʉ̥ðnʲɛmnɛ͈ɸŋɛ̥]

gen dump:

More: show

V=uoeiaw
D=00000tjbĝdknñņpm
C=ĝñtynlbkmņdhðjp0
R=000ñymņðnĝblh
N=00bñlmðņBnhĝy
S=000kdjt
T=1324

Bk|B
Bd|B
Bj|B
Bt|B
B|mp
0||
a1|a
a2|å
a3|ã
a4|à
e1|e
e2|e̊
e3|ẽ
e4|è
i1|i
i2|ı̊
i3|ĩ
i4|ì
o1|o
o2|o̊
o3|õ
o4|ò
u1|u
u2|ů
u3|ũ
u4|ù
w1|w
w2|ẘ
w3|w̃
w4|ẁ

DCRVTN

Medium/Frequent

[Man in Space]

Thanks to some thoughts about Oqsh, I think I might redo how the Kmrön is organized a bit.

Previously I defined a constituent unit, the dołar î sagïs 'papal state'. I said there was only one, the Patchworks, when I initially mentioned it. I'm thinking this will change somewhat:

- The Patchwork States originally was. Now I'm thinking they were.
- Given that, in Oqsh, the tradition of the rad-priests goes back quite a while, it would make sense if certain locations—like, say, if natural reactors turned up elsewhere—might be designated exclaves under their administration.

The second entry above is significant because, in light of the Tim Ar caste system (which I'm also trying to improve upon), the "hat" Oqsh wears is that they are sort of the arbiters of the knowledge and practice of nuclear technology, and if that's their cultural/storyline hat, it might make sense to give Oqsh itself some sort of similar title or recognition—especially since the Tim Ar don't want them going to other states.

I just realized that, in some ways, the rad-priests are to the Tim Ar what the druids are to the Caber.

A redone administrative organization chart for the Tim Ar Empire:

[Man in Space]

Over the past few days I've worked with Brassica to reconcile CT with PB (and PTO). About 400 words with etymologies given are now consistent with Brassica output. I discovered/found out a few things while doing it:

• It looks like the PB *e-infix would override the preëxisting nucleus, turning it into the appropriate glide. The *-j- and *-r- infixes would precede it (and *-e- if present).
• The three PB derivational infixes—*-e-, *-j-, and *-r-—are inserted into the first syllable, not the last. *-e- replaces the nucleus and converts it an appropriate resonant, i.e. one of *ʁ *j *w.
• TO (Tim Ar–O) is a legitimate subset of Beheic. The handful of sound changes common to both is as follows:
  1. [-son -vc] [-son +vc] > Ø [-vc] / _#
  2. Tonogenesis
     1. V > [+tone] / [-son -vc] _
     2. [-cont +vc] [+cont -vc] > [-vc] [+vc]
     3. [-cont -vc] > [+cont] / _ [+syll +hi]
  3. Glide loss
     1. w ʁ j > x h ʃ / [+syll +hi] _ #
     2. w > Ø / B _
     3. j > Ø / E _
  4. high vowel shenanigans
     1. [+syll +hi] > Ø / _ [-syll +son]
     2. [+syll +hi] > Ø / [-syll +son] _
  5. ɪV > V

[Man in Space]

Crash course on Caber for ease of reference.

/m n/
/p b t d k g/
/tɕ dʑ/
/f s z ɕ ʑ x/
/w ɾ/

(/k g x/ > [tɕ dʑ ɕ] / _E)

/a ɛ i ə ɨ ɔ u/ a e i ŏ ŭ o u

/tɕ dʑ/ ć ǵ when not _E

Basic word order: SVO
Adjectives and adverbs precede their referents. Prepositions are generally used.

----


Ba ip copa ba ćŏ maćŭ ba ǵunud.

ba

DEF

ip

man

copa

into

ba

DEF

ćŏ

fire

maćŭ

throw

ba

DEF

ǵunud

fire

'the man throws the stone into the fire'


Cŏap ćupo ba cŭg otgoć ba ip.

cŏap

3SG.M

ćupo

next.to

ba

DEF

cŭg

well

otgoć

fight.with

ba

DEF

ip

man

'he fights with [the man next to the well]'

----

The Seven Kill Stele



Ǵoso do śe har caber ru bŭfec rŭi ćosod.

ǵoso

heaven

do

for.the.sake.of

śe

3SG

har

nurture

cabe

person

=r

COLL

ru

give

bŭfec

without

rŭi

count

ćosod

thing(s)

Caber gat ec ŭǵo not śe bŭf śe do ǵoso tama.

cabe

person

=r

COLL

gat

have

ec

NEG

ŭǵo

something

not

that

śe

3SG

bŭf

with

śe

3SG

do

for.the.sake.of

ǵoso

heaven

tama

give.back

Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin. Rin.

rin

kill

rin

kill

rin

kill

rin

kill

rin

kill

rin

kill

rin

kill

'Heaven brings forth innumerable things with which to nurture man.
Mankind has nothing good to give back to heaven.
Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill.'

----

Pronouns

	SG	PL
1	i	ace
2	o	ba
3M	cŏap	ŏr
3F	osćo	ćomŭ

There is also a 3SG pronoun śe of some sort but I am not sure exactly what its specifics are.

----

Noun/adjective plurals:

1. Final velar consonant: -a
2. Final -o: -c
3. Else: -oc

Perhaps unusually, adjectives referring to mass nouns take a plural suffix, while the mass noun itself does not:

wagiteca oton

wagitec

yellow

-a

PL

oton

pigment

'yellow ink'

irsaoc oŏ

irsa

sharp

-oc

PL

oŏ

air

'air after a thunderstorm'

----

Notes on Adjectives

Adjectives can be turned into causative verbs using the prefix fŏ-:

irsa

sharp

>

>

fŏ-

CAUS

irsa

sharp

nor

dull

>

>

fŏ-

CAUS

nor

dull

The comparative is an adverbial particle te and the superlative an article anta:

irsa

sharp

>

>

te

COMP

irsa

sharp

>

>

anta

SUP

irsa

sharp

nor

dull

>

>

te

COMP

nor

dull

>

>

anta

SUP

nor

dull

Numbers are treated as nouns, not adjectives, and take a prepositional phrase with fe 'of' and the referent noun(s) in the singular; note how the placement of the definite article influences the meaning:

raćboć fe ćŭ

raćboć

four

fe

GEN

ćŭ

tree

'four trees'

ba raćboć fe ćŭ

ba

DEF

raćboć

four

fe

GEN

ćŭ

tree

'the four trees'

raćboć fe ba ćŭ

raćboć

four

fe

GEN

ba

DEF

ćŭ

tree

'four of the trees'

ba raćboć fe ba ćŭ

ba

DEF

raćboć

four

fe

GEN

ba

DEF

ćŭ

tree

'these four trees (specifically)'

----

Adverbs

When modifying verbs, adverbs take the suffix -bo.

• sar 'sad' > sarbo 'sadly'

Adverbs modifying adjectives or other adverbs take the suffix -be:

• famŏw 'light, pale' > famŏwbe 'light, pale' (as in famŏwbe mihgŏ 'light green')

Unusually for an SVO language (although there is precedent for it, namely Buduma), adverbial subordinators in Common Caber come at the end of the clause:

o wec ba hŭ ŏ, o maz bơci fe rŭŏrcis nuas

o

2SG

wec

cut

ba

DEF

hŭ

branch

ŏ

if

o

2SG

maz

gain

bŏci

two

fe

GEN

rŭŏrcis

piece.of.wood

nuas

then

'if you cut the branch, you gain two pieces of wood'

cŏpa dihgor ba adis

cŏpa

3SG.M

dihgor

give.orders.to.

ba

DEF

adis

after

'after he gives you orders', 'when/once he tells you to'

----

Verbs

Past tense: Usually -ce; a few verbs take -t (ci 'arrive, get somewhere', iści 'mix', me 'leave, go, go somewhere', repću 'speak, say'; dialectally, robe 'headbutt')

You can form a causative by ablaut of the final (stressed) stem vowel:

a	e	i	ŏ	ŭ	o	u
↓	↓	↓	↓	↓	↓	↓
o	ie	ai	o	u	oa	uo

ǵatfum

walk

>

ǵatfum

walk

<>

CAUS

Participles

• ti-: Nonpast active participle (ti-i- > ti-)
• om-/on-: Nonpast passive participle (om- is basic, assimilates to on-; om-N- > oN-)
• ć(a)-: Past active participle
• ne-: Past passive participle (ne-e- > ne-)
• (h)a-: Nonpast active circumstantial (a-a- > ha-)
• ŏ-/ŭ-: Nonpast passive circumstantial (surfaces as ŭ- before ŏ-)
• hŭ-: Past active circumstantial
• r(a)-: Past passive circumstantial

The suffix -tŭtam

A suffix -tŭtam would often be employed to promote a dative or prepositional argument to the direct object and the patient to the subject. I gloss it here as EXC (for "EXCHANGE") because it's not quite inversion, but not quite an autobenefactive either. Usually, the replaced prepositional phrase is introduced using the preposition tignes 'about':

comos 'teach (someone something)'
comostŭtam 'learn (something)'

i tignes ba ferŏr comos cŏap

i

1SG

tignes

about

ba

DEF

ferŏr

weather

comos

teach

cŏap

3SG.M

'I teach him about the weather'

cŏap comostŭtam ba ferŏr

cŏap

3SG.M

comos

teach

-tŭtam

EXC

ba

DEF

ferŏr

weather

'he learns about the weather'

opŭn 'discuss' (typically used with a prepositional phrase indicating the object of discussion)
opŭntŭtam 'be discussed, concern someone'

ŏr ba iniscip opŭn

ŏr

3PL.M

tignes

about

ba

DEF

iniscip

punishment

opŭn

discuss

'they discuss the punishment'

ba iniscip opŭntŭtam

ba

DEF

iniscip

punishment

opŭn

discuss

-tŭtam

EXC

DEF punishment discuss-EXCHANGE
'the punishment is being talked about'

Currently, I'm thinking that this will be indicated in writing by writing the character for faw 'flip' after the verb.

----

Existentials

There are four existentials in Common Caber: tac 'there is', iec 'there is no(t)', ŏn 'there was', and ŭnec 'there was not'. To write iec, one uses a combination of the negative character and the character for tac. Existentials come at the beginning of the sentence. For the past-tense existentials, one uses the same past-tense marker one would use for verbs.

tac ŭtam ba rŭ boz

tac

there.is

ŭtam

on

ba

DEF

rŭ

field

boz

soil

'there's soil in the field'

iec ŭtam ba rŭ boz

iec

there.is.not

ŭtam

on

ba

DEF

rŭ

field

boz

soil

'there's no soil in the field'

ŏn ŭtam ba rŭ boz

ŏn

there.was

ŭtam

on

ba

DEF

rŭ

field

boz

soil

'there was soil in the field'

ŭnec ŭtam ba rŭ boz

ŭnec

there.was.no

ŭtam

on

ba

DEF

rŭ

field

boz

soil

'there was no soil in the field'

----

Derivational Morphology

• -ćV: Illimitable pattern of action
  1. ǵatfum 'walk' + -ćV 'ILL.PATT' > ǵatfumću 'walk, route, way, journey'
  2. ŭmŭ 'paint, write' + -ćV 'ILL.PATT' > ŭmŭćŭ 'subject, topic'
  3. mafa 'cook (food)' + -ćV 'ILL.PATT' > mafaća 'recipe'
  4. ǵan 'sing' + -ćV 'ILL.PATT' > ǵanća 'song'
  5. ćo 'teach' + -ćV 'ILL.PATT' > ćoćo 'subject matter, lesson materials'
• -i: Emitted or given off
  1. ma 'glow' + -i 'emitted/given off' > mai 'glow'
  2. ŭstac 'sweat' + -i 'emitted/given off' > ŭstaci 'sweat'
  3. ŏć 'urinate' + -i 'emitted/given off' > ŏci 'urine'
  4. tŭ 'extrude sap' + -i 'emitted/given off' > tŭi 'sap, tree sap'
  5. ŏnŏ 'cry, weep' + -i 'emitted/given off' > ŏnŏi 'tears'
• (a)n-: Characteristic passive
  1. edren 'complain' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > nedren 'problem, issue'
  2. iscip 'punish' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > niscip 'someone who has a judgment carried out against them'
  3. dŏs 'drop, let go of' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > andŏs 'refuse, garbage'
  4. repću 'speak, say' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > anrepću 'speech, language instinct'
  5. ǵan 'sing' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > anǵan 'song'
  6. baśam 'pick a fight, instigate' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > ambaśam 'bone of contention'
  7. baw 'vomit' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > ambaw 'vomitus'
  8. fa 'blow' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > amfa 'blast'
  9. miśin 'hang' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > anmiśin 'clothing'
  10. ŭ 'suspend' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > nŭ 'plumb bob, plumb line'
  11. mafa 'cook (food)' + (a)n- 'CH.PASS' > anmafa 'feast'
• -(V)nme: Delocative (turns nouns referring to locations into verbs characteristic of what goes on in that location)
  1. ǵŭ 'shop, bazaar' + -(V)nme 'DELOC' > ǵŭnme 'bargain, haggle'
  2. camno 'pasture' + -(V)nme 'DELOC' > camnonme 'graze'
  3. aćam 'forehead' + -(V)nme 'DELOC' > aćamanme 'blink'
  4. nuc 'volcano' + -(V)nme 'DELOC' > nucunme 'erupt (of a volcano)'
  5. rŭn 'grove, stand of trees' + -(V)nme 'DELOC' > rŭnŭnme 'log, cut down trees for wood'
• -re: Locative of action
  1. ǵatfum 'walk' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > ǵatfumre 'route'
  2. ćo 'teach' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > ćore 'school'
  3. ościǵ 'defend' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > ościǵre 'defensive position, high ground; hometown' (which meaning developed depends on the dialect)
  4. mep 'stand' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > mepre 'stand, podium, dais'
  5. bor 'wither' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > bore 'contaminated field, diseased field'
  6. har 'nurture, raise' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > hare 'home'
  7. tama 'give back, give in return' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > tamare 'customs house'
  8. ota 'take' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > otare 'backpack, knapsack'
  9. carŏ 'join together, fix' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > carŏre 'workstation'
  10. rŭsacoa 'destruction' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > rŭsacoare 'destroyed town'
  11. ma 'glow' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > mare 'gegenschein'
  12. ŏ 'sit (somewhere)' + -re 'LOC.ACT' > ŏre 'seat'
• s(o)-: Characteristic nominalizer
  1. s- 'CHAR.NOM' + ćur 'give birth' > soćur 'woman'
  2. s- 'CHAR.NOM' + edren 'complain' > sedren 'malcontent'
  3. s- 'CHAR.NOM' + cośiǵ 'trade' > socośiǵ 'merchant, trader'
  4. s- 'CHAR.NOM' + oś '(do) work' > śoś laborer'
• -s(V): Resultative (sometimes used to produce gerunds from causative verbs in those dialects where the causative did not fossilize early on)
  1. oǵ 'know' > oǵso 'knowledge'
  2. ćŭr 'show something to someone' > ćŭrsŭ 'introduction, discovery, exposure'
  3. zoce 'throw off sparks' > zoces 'sparks'
  4. ǵon 'murder' > ǵonso 'murder'
  5. repću 'speak' > repćus 'speech, quote'
  6. ćo 'teach' > ćos 'instruction'
  7. goć 'learn' > goćso 'education, knowledge'
  8. otgoć 'hit, fight with' > otgoćso 'feud, bad blood'
• ŭf-: Characteristic substances of actions
  1. taran 'glue' + ŭf- 'CH.SBST' > ŭftaran 'glue'
  2. suir 'shine (up)' + ŭf- 'CH.SBST' > ŭfsuir 'lacquer'
  3. hŭir 'chew' + ŭf- 'CH.SBST' > ŭfhŭir 'saliva'
  4. achar 'burn' + ŭf- 'CH.SBST' > ŭfachar 'firewood, kindling'

----

WH-words

e 'who? what? (subject)'
ri 'who? what? (object)'
ćam 'do what?' (probably not a very good translation; there is no verb 'to do' in Caber, and this is used instead)
eś 'where?'
ćuŭ 'when?'
age 'why?'
ŏs 'how?'
cŏwŏ 'how far?'
ei 'how much? (quantity)'
ǵo 'how much? to what extent?'

These question words appear in the same place in the sentence as the referent normally would. Interestingly, the question particle ćŭa, usually used for polar questions, is obligatory.

E dihgor ba ćŭa?

e

who.SBJ

dihgor

command

ba

DEF

ćŭa

Q

'who commands you?'

Cŏpa bo ri ćŭa?

cŏpa

3SG.M

bo

hold

ri

what.OBJ

ćŭa

Q

'what is he holding?'

Cŏpa ćam ćŭa?

cŏpa

3SG.M

ćam

what

ćŭa

Q

'what does he do?'

Cŏpa eś margin ćŭa?

cŏpa

3SG.M

eś

where

margin

remain

ćŭa

Q

'where is he staying?'

Cŏpa ćuŭ gat cŏpa ćŭa?

cŏpa

3SG.M

ćuŭ

when

gat

have

cŏpa

3SG.M

ćŭa

Q

'when will he have it?'

Age o oś ec ćŭa?

age

why

o

2SG

oś

do.work

ec

NEG

ćŭa

Q

'why aren't you working?'

O ŏs oś ćŭa?

o

2SG

ŏs

how

oś

do.work

ćŭa

Q

'how do you work? how does one discharge their duties here?'

Ba ǵŭ cŏwŏ ćŭa?

ba

DEF

ǵŭ

bazaar

cŏwŏ

how.far

ćŭa

Q

'how far (away) is the bazaar?'

Ei bosa ćŭa?

ei

how.much

bosa

water

ćŭa

Q

'how much water?'

Cŏpa ǵo rŭsacoa cŏpa ćŭa?

cŏpa

3SG.M

ǵo

how.much

rŭsacoa

destroy

cŏpa

3SG.M

ćŭa

Q

'to what extent will that destroy it?' (= 'how badly will that damage it?', 'how much will that ruin it?')

----

Compounds

Noun-noun compounds are formed by simply attaching both nouns. Only the head noun takes any inflection.

• gatśer 'magic' + ip 'man' > gatśerip 'shaman, warlock' ("magic-man")
• gatśer 'magic' + soćur 'woman' > gatśersoćur 'witch' ("magic-woman")
• cŭfe 'shield' + ćucŏh 'chain' > cŭfećucŏh 'defensive formation' ("shield-chain")
• sućumi 'knee' + ŭćo 'eye' > sućumiŭśo 'kneecap'
• damba 'joint, bend' + sihca 'corner' > dambasihca 'switchback, point in a road where it doubles back toward itself'

Adjective-noun compounds are also permitted:

• sar 'sad' + śuśur 'grass' > sarśuśur 'type of grass'

Common Caber also permits verb-verb compounds. The verb ŭtua 'consider' is a good example of this.

• iasci 'read' + ŭtua 'consider' > iasciŭtua 'consider reading, think about reading, intend to read'
• mu 'swap, switch' + ŭtua 'consider' > muŭtua 'consider switching, think about switching, intend to switch'
• miep 'prop up' + ŭtua 'consider' > miepŭtua 'consider propping up, think about propping up, intend to prop up'
• hŭr 'speak, say' + ŭtua 'consider' > hŭrŭtua 'consider speaking/saying, think about speaking/saying, intend to speak/say'
• bes 'choose' + ŭtua 'consider' > besŭtua 'consider choosing, think about choosing, intend to choose'

Compounding is not limited to this verb, though the results are often somewhat idiomatic:

• edren 'complain' + oś '(do) work' > edrenoś 'acquiesce'
• ma 'glow' + cŏpaw 'explode' > macŏpaw 'explode in a fireball; explode (of fireworks)'
• macśi 'hunt' + camnon 'compel, force' > macśicamnon 'force to hunt, compel to hunt, make someone hunt'
• oś '(do) work' + ŭś 'hinder' > ośŭś 'interrupt (someone doing something), break someone's concentration'
• hŭr 'speak, say' + ŭś 'hinder' > hŭrŭś 'interrupt, shout down'

Some compounds have their own dedicated characters (gatśerip 'shaman, warlock' and gatśersoćur 'witch' come to mind here), but many are written using both of their respective characters in sequence.

[Man in Space]

I've been working with Brassica and I think I more-or-less have a good set of changes from Proto-Beheic to Proto-Tim Ar-O and thence to CT and Proto-O. Some of the cognates are…interesting.

PB *batɪað > CT hadál [hàðál] : PO *pjr [pfja]
PB *bɔrejʔtʲi > CT horis [hòɹìs] : PO *pwrjhj [pwajhi]
PB *raʔjaheqʔ > CT rigáḫ [ɹìʕáx] : PO *tjrk [tsjax]
PB *d̪ɪejral > CT ríag [ɹíàʕ] : PO *hjre [hiʁe]
PB *ðempaʔol > CT limháúg [lìmháúʕ] : PO *jmprjr [imbʁiʁ]
PB *dʲɛɢɔti > CT teḫod [tèhòθ] : PO *jehwkj [jehuɣi]
PB *dʲɛjɔð > CT tël [tɤ̀l] : PO *tjwj [tsjuj]
PB *bweku > CT hüḫú [hỳɣú] : PO *pwj [pwi]
PB *gaðʁejʔ > CT kailás [kàìlás] : PO *ker [keʁ]
PB *ugodadʲɪa > CT kuasa [kùàzà] : PO *wkjtrhr [ukxizaha]
PB *ɢigd̪ɪɔtu > CT ḫikłod [xìkɬòθ] : PB *jkwhw [iɣuhu]
PB *iðket̪hu > CT laíł [làíɬ] : PB *twjhw [twihu]
PB *ikurhan > CT igrán [ìʕɹán] : PB *tjrn [tsjaŋ]
PB *irɢɔd̪ > CT rḫoh [ɹ̩ɣòh] : PB *twt [tus]
PB *kɛðɛn > CT kámr [kǽmɹ̩] : PB *kjen [kxjeŋ]
PB *klote > CT káud [káùθ] : PB *tjtj [tsitsi]
PB *kjeʁtu > CT ḫiad [xìàθ] : PB *kjrhw [kxjahu]
PB *krjapʔ > CT sáah [sáàh] : PB *kjrp [kxjaf]
PB *ðakajʔ > CT lagás [làʕàs] : PB *jrkrj [jaɣʁi]
PB *mekɔj > CT migós [mìʕós] : PB *njkwj [niɣwi]
PB *ɔhetɪe > CT öd [ø̀θ] : PB *wjhj [wihi]
PB *pɪɛjtɪɛjʔ > CT hésdés [hésθés] : PB *ejeh [ejeh]
PB *qardajʔ > CT ḫáras [xáɹàs] : PB *kretrj [kʁezʁi]
PB *pɪeðɪeb-nuga > CT hílihnka [hílìhn̩gà] : PB *twkr [tuɣa]
PB *qɔhɛtʲal > CT ḫôrág [xɔ́ɹàʕ] : PB *kwejer [kwejeʁ]
PB *tɪeʁm > CT díam [θíæ̀m] : PB *hjrn [hjaŋ]
PB *teʁlkon > CT hahgün [hàhʕỳn] : PB *tjrkwn [tsjaɣuŋ]
PB *teʁlkon > CT łogën [ɬòʕɤ̀n] : PB *tjhtejwn [tsihtejuŋ]

Tim Ar–O forms its own clade/subfamily within Beheic. The common sound changes are thus:

1. Final obstruent deletion
   1. [+cons -son -vc] > Ø / _#
   2. [+cons -son +vc] > [-vc] / _#
2. Tonogenesis
   1. [+syll] > [+tone] / [-vc] _
   2. [+cons -son -cont] > [-vc]
   3. [+cons -son +cont] > [+son +vc]
3. Fricative genesis
   1. [+cons -son -cont] > [+cont] / _ [-cons +hi]
   2. w ʁ j > x h ʃ / [-cons +hi] _ #
4. High vowel deletion adjacent to sonorants
   1. [+syll +hi] > Ø / _ [+son]
   2. [+syll +hi] > Ø / [+son] _
5. Loss of diphthongal onglides
   1. ɪV > V
6. Mid vowels raise
   1. e é o ó > i í u ú
   2. ɛ ɛ́ ɔ ɔ́ > e é o ó
   3. {i,í}j {u,ú}w > í ú
7. Semivocalic syllabification
   1. w ʁ j > u a i / {#,C} _ {#,C}

[Man in Space]

Common Caber is getting a tune-up.

/m n/ m n
/p b t d tɕ dʑ k g/ p b t d ć¹ ǵ¹ c² g²
/f s z ɕ ʑ x/ f s z ś ź h²
/w~v ɾ/ v³ r

/a ɛ ə ɔ i ɨ u/ a e ŏ o i ŭ u

1. Written as plain c g when _E
2. /k g x/ [tɕ dʑ ɕ] / _E
3. Realized [v] initially and following a consonant and as [w] otherwise

Syllable structure is typically (C)V(C). Word-initially, however, the following clusters are permitted:

/fs-~fr- ts- ks-/ vr- q- x-
/kst-/ xt-
/tsr- ksr-/ qr- xr-
/br- vd-~vr- dz-~dr- gr-/ bd- vd- dr- gd-
/bn- vn- dn- dzn- gn- gzn-/ bn- vn- dn- qn- gn- xn-
/fk-/ vc-
/bx- vg-~vx- tx- dx- tsx-/ bg- vg- tg- dg- qg-

Also: The -a of velar-terminal plurals now sometimes palatalizes the consonant: doc ‘siren; owl’ > doća ‘sirens’, doca ‘owls’.

Also, only five word-final clusters may appear: /-nk -rk -ts -ks -st/ -nc -rc -q -x -st.

[Man in Space]

Since I’m hamstrung by technical difficulties at work, edits to the CC phonology:

/m n/ m n
/p b t d tɕ dʑ k g/ p b t d q j c g
/f s z ɕ x/ f s z ç h
/v~w ɾ ʑ~j/ v r gi/ge

{k,g}E > j / _V
{k,g}E > j / V_
k g x > tɕ j ɕ / _E

/a ɛ ə ɔ i ɨ u/ a e ŏ o i ŭ u

Syllable structure is (C)V(C) with the addition of the following permissible clusters:

INITIALS
/bɾ-~bd- ts-~tɾ- dz-~dɾ- ɾs- ks- kɾ-~kj- gɾ-~gj-/ bd tr dr rs x cr gr
/ft- fk- fs-~fɾ- vd-~vɾ- ɾd- kt- gd-/ vt vc vr vd rd ct gd
/bn- vn- dn- dʑn- gn- ksn-~gzn-/ bn vn dn jn gn xn
/bɣ-~bj- vg-~vɣ-~vj- tx- dɣ-~dj- ɾg-~ɾj- tɕk- dʑg-/ bg vg tg dg rg qg jg
/mw- vw-~bw-~bv- nw- ɾw-~dɾw-~dzw-/ mv bv nv dv
/tɕw-~tɕv- dʑw-~dʑv- kw- gw-/ qv jv cv gv
/ɾdw-~ɾdv- ɾdg-~ɾd͜ʑ- kst- ktɾ-~kts-~ktj- ktn-~kɾn- ktj-~kt͜ɕ-/ rdv rdg xt ctr crn ctg(i)

FINALS
/-ts -ks -sk/ ts x sc
/-ntɕ -ndʑ/ nq nj
/-ŋk -ŋks/ nc nx
/-ɾk -ɾks/ rc rx

[Man in Space]

Caber personal nomenclature typically involves a noun phrase of the form adjective - noun - number. Nesŏoc Fŭsca Rahboq bŭf Postoçeŭ was a historical leader of a Caber contingent; his name means 'Forty Stolen Cakes'. Another historical ruler is Ramaqŭoc Qŭoc Bŏqi '(With) Two Felled Trees'. The nouns often stay the same amongst family units, though the adjectives and numbers vary. (If the number is "one", the noun and adjective will be in the singular: Sŭnju Andŭvŭh Bŭqŏ 'One Difficult Question'.) The typical "short name" that gets cited if the referent is known is the noun plus the number: Ba Neŭmŭoc fe Qŭoc Bŏqi 'the writings of (Ramanŭoc) Qŭoc Bŏqi'. If the noun is singular, you can dispense with the "one": Ba Neŭmŭoc fe Andŭvŭh 'the writings of (Sŭnju) Andŭvŭh (Bŭqŏ)'.

There are a few other descriptors that can be used in place of a number—ec or tetec ‘no, none’, any of the four existentials, qnegia ‘some’, jenx ‘(a) certain’, and i ‘another’ are among the most common.

[Man in Space]

Updating the permissible initial clusters:

/bɾ- ts-~tɾ- dz-~dɾ- ɾs- ks- kɾ-~kj- gɾ-~gj-/ bd tr dr rs x cr gr
/ft- fk- fs-~fɾ- vd-~vɾ- ɾd- kt-/ vt vc vr vd rd ct
/bn- vn- dn- dʑn- gn- ksn-~gzn-/ bn vn dn jn gn xn
/bɣ-~bj- vg-~vɣ-~vj- tx- dɣ-~dj- ɾg-~ɾj- tɕk- dʑg-/ bg vg tg dg rg qg jg
/mw- vw-~bw-~bv- nw- ɾw-~dɾw-~dzw-/ mv bv nv dv
/tɕw-~tɕv- dʑw-~dʑv- kw- gw-/ qv jv cv gv
/ɾdw-~ɾdv- ɾdg-~ɾd͜ʑ- kst- ktɾ-~kts-~ktj- ktn- ktj-~kt͜ɕ-/ rdv rdg xt ctr ctn ctg(i)

…it really has come a long way, hasn't it?

[Man in Space]

Caber scribal exercises:

[Raholeun]

I especially like the last one. It has a distinct grimoiric quality to it, reminiscent of the sigils of ceremonial magic. What significance do they have?

[Man in Space]

I especially like the last one. It has a distinct grimoiric quality to it, reminiscent of the sigils of ceremonial magic. What significance do they have?

The first two are variations on the customary grid structure upon which Caber glyphs are designed. The third is an exercise in point-to-point elements; the last is an exercise in strokes within a single quadrant of the grid.

[Man in Space]

Caber society originally venerated ancestors. Generally you would pray to, sacrifice to, venerate, petition, whatever your ancestors. No matter where you were, you could do this, though the spirits of the ancestors did have a tendency to hang around the place where they lived or spent most of their time. After the Mute Caber branched off from the Core Caber, this ended up mutating into the paradigm of leader worship that the Caber eventually became known for. Druids existed prior to the split and can be found amongst both the Mute and Core Caber, though the idea of a powerholder as genius loci or a sort of pharaonic god-king is a later development.

As I've previously related, the druids (tibozganoc, sg. tibozgan) are, to state it in gonzo terms, notorious and characteristic hippies, and were obligatorily female. They did not typically hold any formal political power; it wasn't unheard of but was somewhat rare, though once they had been fully initiated they generally stuck around a given locality as a "home base" or "territory". Druids subscribe to a canon (rareçu, pl. rareçuoc); to a first approximation, there are seven main ones, the first four being known as the açcanoc rareçuoc 'blue canons' and the last three being the mihgŏoc rareçuoc 'green canons':

1. Sapu (dagger)
2. Mazno (enduring)
3. Ŏtavbataru (gnostic)
4. Famŏvbe (pale)
5. Tazu (alpine)
6. Ŭvŭc (neo-druidic)
7. Omiçca (reconciled)

On the other hand, the males were the ones who actually did the governance. As ancestor worship changed to leader worship, the status of genius loci—the incarnation of a particular place or location—was conferred upon them. As the realm of nature was for the women, the men dealt with more abstract philosophical concepts, particularly their own form of sacred geometry and various divination (çombrajevbatar 'beliving-finding'; çombrajev being an old compound çomar 'to believe' + rajev 'to find'; çomar-a-rajev—this intrusive -a- there to break up ^Xrr—and then haplology interfered…CC always stressed the ultima, which affected things) practices.

There are thirty-six main methods or processes of divination, divisible into six "schools" or "vehicles" of six each, and two more Forbidden Knowledge sorts. The characteristically Caber forms of divination include:

1. Giçtubatar Acoustic (giç 'sound, noise' + itu 'to measure)
   1. Chalcomancy
      You get cymbals, gongs, chimes, or bowls and make noise with them. Usually bronze or copper items were used, though these could be gilt, ornamented, and decorated. Crystal instruments were not unheard of, and when glass became more widespread, it entered frequent use.
   2. Crepandomancy
      Throw something on the fire and listen to the cracks, clicks, pings, snaps, wheezes, whistles, whatever noises it makes as it burns. The well-to-do would often commission ceramic ingots for the purpose. Black plants were considered the best to use when burning plant matter; red supposedly was bellicose and id-like and would actively lie to you or prey on your fears, while yellow was too deferential, cowardly, selfless, and reluctant to tell you the full story. (This red-black-yellow id-ego-superego-type deal ends up being important culturally.)
   3. Cymatics
      Get some kind of bowl or basin or whatever and see what patterns the sound makes in it.
   4. Echomancy
      Go to a mountainside or cave, make some loud noises, listen for the echo.
   5. Lecanomancy
      Drop something in water and listen to the bloop!.
   6. Keraunomancy
      Pay attention to the thunder when it storms. The interval between seeing the strike and hearing the boom could be clinically significant, and you'd listen for any peculiarities in the sound profile of the thunderclaps and in their echoes/propagation and volume.
2. Ŭhgesejbatar Celestial (ŭhai 'air, sky, atmosphere' + eseq 'hear')
   1. Astrapomancy
      Spooky action through lightning. You'd watch to see what kind of lightning it was—full-sky, inter-cloud, intra-cloud, cloud/ground—and look at the shape of the bolt, you'd see what trees, animals, structures, people, &c. it struck, or you'd put out basically lightning rods and see which ones get hit, how often, when, what damage did it do, did it start a fire…)
   2. Astromancy
      The movement of the planets, stars, the night sky generally. Pretty much a separate entity from roadomancy (q.v.); the constellations themselves don't mean much.
   3. Meteormancy
      Watch the shooting stars and figure out your answer from that. Particularly strong meteor showers are considered bad luck. A meteor hitting one of the moons of Íröd, which has been observed to have happened a few times in recorded history, is sufficiently grave as to instigate mass lifetime-ending events among some adherents.
   4. Roadomancy
      Technically constellations, so kind of a zodiac; also involves other celestial bodies to a lesser extent. It's sort of the converse of astromancy, which is basically the opposite. There have been a handful of satellites launched to do…something…for the benefit of one star sign or other, which pissed a lot of people off and remains a source of considerable controversy.
   5. Selenomancy
      Staring at the twin moons of Íröd for divination purposes. King-of-the-Sky (Xi Boötis B) is included here, and the peculiarities of its orbit end up being relevant, particularly on the cyclic, long-term scale.
   6. Solaromancy
      Instead of the moons and Second Sun, use the first one (Xi Boötis A) instead. As Xi Boö A is a variable with a period that lasts around one dahsar week (by some measures), its cycle of brightening and dimming is sort of a much more rapidly-cycling version of what they do with King-of-the-Sky. Shadowmancy, which is exactly what it sounds like, is considered a flavor of this.
3. Anrepqusegisu Linguistic (anrepqu 'speech, language instinct or faculty' + seisu 'language, tongue')
   1. Chresmomancy
      Find a crazy person, give him a soapbox, and listen to his conspiracy theories or whatever for a while, and pluck some meaning from that.
   2. Clamancy
      Get a large crowd together, instigate some sort of passionate response from them via appropriate means, and then listen to the shouts/utterances/speech of the masses.
   3. Gastromancy
      Wikipedia says this refers to "guttural sounds" as opposed to something food-related like I'd expected. The dataset is sometimes just random vocalizations or melismatic murmurs, but often involves meaningful speech. It's common to apply some sort of affect to the speech; pharyngealization and vocal fry are common, but simple low and soft bass tones, harsh voice, voicing of all obstruents, and breathy voice are not unheard of.
   4. Graphology
      Basically, horoscope by handwriting (older English sources might call this "graphoanalysis"). There is usually some length to a text to be reviewed (a letter to a friend, for example, typically suffices), though smaller samples can be read, albeit with caveats and uncertainties. Additionally, grammomancy (individual letters) and stigonomancy (burning writings into bark) are recognized forms.
   5. Kau cim
      This is kind of a Bronze-Age Magic 8-ball. You have a container of sticks on which specific words or phrases are written and you draw according to the procedure; what's written on the stick(s) you pull is your answer.
   6. Stichomancy
      Instead of the particulars of handwriting, this deals with the textual/informational content of books or written texts (for instance, cf. the "Bible code").
4. Ŭfcgiarqŏ Material (ŭfachar 'firewood' + qŏ 'fire')
   1. Alomancy
      The CC word for 'salt', ŭfmafa, is a derived term that is literally something like 'the substance you think of when you think of cooking things', so it's no surprise that salt is used for these purposes. Involves the use of a salt pendulum—you get a pouch or paper cone, snip the bottom off, load it with salt, suspend it, and watch the patterns the salt makes as the pouch swings.
   2. Molybdomancy
      This form revolves around molten metal. Typically, either you sprinkled droplets into water and observed the action (distinct from lecanomancy above), you observed the patterns of the crud that floats on top of molten metal at a foundry, poured it on the floor and watched the shapes it made as it flowed and cooled, you'd throw a little bit of something onto some molten metal and observed it as it melted, or you'd hold your hand over a bowl or pool of it for as long as you could stand and the time it took to become unbearable would tell you something.
   3. Oryctomancy (crystals)
   4. Pyromancy (fire)
   5. Radiesthesia (rods, cylinders, pendulums)
   6. Turifumy (shapes in smoke)
5. Rŭmŭçtan Mathematic (rŭmŭç 'odd' + tan 'even'; incidentally, the word for 'mathematics' as a non-magical discipline is tanrŭmŭç)
   1. Cellulautomancy
      I invented this term because I haven't seen it anywhere before—this practice uses methods akin to Conway's game of life for fortunetelling purposes. I keep it distinct from ludomancy because it's not really considered a "game" to the Caber.
   2. Fractomancy
      Divine information through fractals.
   3. Ludomancy
      You might call this "divining through game theory". This particularly includes games involving (things akin to) dominoes, dice, "enochian chess", go, cards, and jenga.
   4. Mathemancy
      Mathematics as mystic query. Of the divers practices within this tradition, logarithmancy—reading logs instead of leaves—was, for whatever reason, really popular once the Caber figured out how logarithms worked.
   5. Numerology
      A tradition of numerology. Here it wasn't the math that was important so much as the numbers themselves. Drawing random numbers out of a bag and inscribing numbers on animal bones and throwing them into a fire to see what the cracks did against them were two popular practices.
   6. Sikidy (well, something like sikidy)
6. Ihpiçu Vital (ihpi 'life' + çu 'soul')
   1. Årsgång
      Basically, walking into a sacred forest until you get lost.
   2. Auramancy
      I can see your halo/aura/sheen/luminescence. Typically executed on mountains with favorable cloud or fog conditions, but can be done in any suitable foggy or cloudy weather. Suitable smog in urban areas is also sometimes used.
   3. Dririmancy
      Wound yourself and watch the blood drops. May also involve tasting the blood.
   4. Scatomancy
      Fortunetelling using excrement. Urine and feces, obviously, are used, but also vomit, sweat, nasal discharge, pus…basically anything gross that the body wants to rid itself of.
   5. Spasmatomancy
      Observing one's convulsions, which may be helped along by biologically-active agents tailored for the purpose.
   6. Thumomancy
      This one was hard to describe as the rundown of methods I found didn't list anything quite what I was going for. Involves "one's own self", saith the august Dr. Wik E. Pedia; to a first approximation, visions and hallucinations. Sort of. It's kind of broad but also kind of nebulous and resists attempts to nail id down; the major constituents are empirimancy (one's own experiences), enthusiasm (in the sense of speech through possession), narcomancy (sleep), oneiromancy (dreams specifically), photomancy (light), sciomancy (via spirits), somnambulomancy (sleepwalking), and theomancy (prophecy/foretelling). The Caber themselves acknowledge that this is sort of a wastebasket taxon.

Young children (the age of 12 is usually the cutoff) who are considered to be adept at one or more of these divination methods are called "oraculi" (sg. "oraculus") in English.

There are two additional methods that aren't part of the thirty-six, but they are largely proscribed:

1. Tephramancy
   You get the ashes of someone who died (not necessarily by your hand or on your orders) and try to contact them or get information that way.
2. Xylomancy
   This is not something lightly done. You fell a sacred tree, maybe burn it or carve it up or take a cross-section slice or pull a core sample (or some combination thereof), then get a druid to look at it and tell you what it means.

Also, if they're not burying a dead body to recycle its resources, the Caber sometimes practice exocannibalism—they eat their vanquished enemies.

[Man in Space]

Pursuant to CC's new phonotactic rules, I was crunching the numbers on the number of permissible syllables.

Onset: 18 single consonants + 1 null onset + 41 complex onsets = 60 onsets
Nucleus: 7 vowels
Coda: 18 single consonants + 1 null coda + 9 complex codas = 28 codas

11'760 possible syllables (discounting allophonic changes which would theoretically reduce the number of contrasts somewhat but not all that much). If I limit myself to onset and nucleus, that drops to 420 possible such combinations. Just onsets would yield me 60. I like the middle route. It'll give me an opportunity to do some tinkering with the radicals.

There are already a few glyphs with sound radicals of their own integrated in somewhere; this was a rudimentary set under the old phonotactics. I like the idea of there having been two…radicalizations…of the script with an older, fossilized set.

[Man in Space]

Europeans had heraldry. The Inca had their woven-square motifs.

The Caber have scribograms.

[bradrn]

For some reason I find those patterns immensely satisfying to look at.

[Man in Space]

For some reason I find those patterns immensely satisfying to look at.

They're incredibly fun to make, too. I have a task-minder system that uses cards, on the back of which is a dot grid; I draw these longhand first before digitizing them. It’s kind of zen.

[WeepingElf]

I think they don't do a good job as identifying signs (which was the function of European heraldry).