Conlang Random Thread

[Knit Tie]

So this is from a chat with my linguist friend about my ideas for my conlang's grammar, I'd like to know your opinion on all this jazz.

In terms of grammar, I'm thinking highly agglutinative with a very productive an important independent tense, aspect, mood, evidentiality and applicativity marking system on verb, with applicativity being a special Surajece thing that represents how much the verb applies to the subject (for intransitive) or object (for transitive).
So basically, a grammaticalised way of saying "a bit," "a lot" or "not at all."
So you can say, for example, "I think that it has likely been raining a lot" with one verb.

So this system was originally derived from verb serialisation, and would you say that if it's still going strong, I can eventually use it to replace adverbs completely?
So "he's speaking worriedly" would be "speak-now-incomplete-observed-indicative-a regular amount-worry-now-incomplete-inferred-probable-a lot"
Does that sound too weird and clunky, or just clunky enough?
I think of allowing marks on a serialised verb that are identical to those of a preceding verb to elide.

[Raholeun]

Your post got me massively excited to add ideophones that express jazz rythms to my language.

[Xwtek]

So this is from a chat with my linguist friend about my ideas for my conlang's grammar, I'd like to know your opinion on all this jazz.

In terms of grammar, I'm thinking highly agglutinative with a very productive an important independent tense, aspect, mood, evidentiality and applicativity marking system on verb, with applicativity being a special Surajece thing that represents how much the verb applies to the subject (for intransitive) or object (for transitive).
So basically, a grammaticalised way of saying "a bit," "a lot" or "not at all."
So you can say, for example, "I think that it has likely been raining a lot" with one verb.

You have a wrong term for "applicativity." Unless I misunderstand, this is just diminutive-augmentative.

So this system was originally derived from verb serialisation, and would you say that if it's still going strong, I can eventually use it to replace adverbs completely?
So "he's speaking worriedly" would be "speak-now-incomplete-observed-indicative-a regular amount-worry-now-incomplete-inferred-probable-a lot"
Does that sound too weird and clunky, or just clunky enough?
I think of allowing marks on a serialised verb that are identical to those of a preceding verb to elide.

Yes, it's too clunky. It reminds me a lot of Ithkuil. Also, most polysynthetic languages still have adverb anyway. And is it really a single word? It looks like 2-3 words for me.

[Pabappa]

In Poswa, "he's speaking worriedly" would be

Pobba totšafas.
speak-3P worry-3P-GEN


Where the GEN is a serial verb marker to show that one verb happens at the same time as the other. Not sure if this is attested, but if it is, it'd fit well into a polysynthetic framework.

[akam chinjir]

Plenty of languages have a marker that can be used in verb chains instead of repeating TAM and person marking. Turkish -ip is an example. ---Though if I remember right these show up with actual clause chains, not serial verbs.

I agree with Akangka that your use of the word "applicative" is confusing here, but the basic idea seems sound to me.

[Xwtek]

Do polysynthetic languages' verbs tend to be closed class? The only polysynthetic language that has open class verbs that I know is (modern) Nahuatl. (I don't know if modern Nahuatl remains polysynthetic, or it has been simplified)

[Whimemsz]

.

[malloc]

Despite considerable research, I still feel like the consonant system in my main conlang doesn't quite cohere. I want to avoid hushing sibilants in favor of /s/ since this is my ultimate "cellar door" conlang based on everything I like. Yet that seems arbitrary and outrageous to say that phonological rules yield /s:/ when they logically they should yield /tS:/ or worse yet that /s/ never palatalizes even before /i/ because I simply prefer hissing over hushing fricatives.

[Zaarin]

Despite considerable research, I still feel like the consonant system in my main conlang doesn't quite cohere. I want to avoid hushing sibilants in favor of /s/ since this is my ultimate "cellar door" conlang based on everything I like. Yet that seems arbitrary and outrageous to say that phonological rules yield /s:/ when they logically they should yield /tS:/ or worse yet that /s/ never palatalizes even before /i/ because I simply prefer hissing over hushing fricatives.

There are plenty of languages with /s/ and no /ʃ/, and /ʃ/ > /s/ is a trivially common sound change.

[mae]

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[Raphael]

Sound Change Applier question: is there some way to get the SCA to make word-final vowels disappear, except if the vowel is the only vowel in the entire word?

[Nortaneous]

Sound Change Applier question: is there some way to get the SCA to make word-final vowels disappear, except if the vowel is the only vowel in the entire word?

make a cover symbol for everything that isn't a vowel - let's say C - and a cover symbol for everything that is - let's say V - and then condition apocope on V(C(C(C(C(C)))))_, with as many nested (C)s as your phonotactics demand

[Raphael]

Sound Change Applier question: is there some way to get the SCA to make word-final vowels disappear, except if the vowel is the only vowel in the entire word?

make a cover symbol for everything that isn't a vowel - let's say C - and a cover symbol for everything that is - let's say V - and then condition apocope on V(C(C(C(C(C)))))_, with as many nested (C)s as your phonotactics demand

Ok, I'll try that.

[Salmoneus]

I'd use wildcards. Ideally, it should be doable with just V//V…_#. But I don't know how good the wildcard function really is at things like that, so if that doesn't work you might have to use something circumlocutious, like:

/!/_V
!/£/V…_
V//£_#
!//_
£//_

[or maybe even repeat the second line, if that doesn't suffice to go through the whole of a word with multiple vowels, although I think it should?]

[Xwtek]

In my world, there is fire magic, using fire magic, one can bypass the plate armor (Metal is heat conductor). How much heat is required to damage the victim even if the victim wears cloth under it? My idea that is by using fire magic, people starts to abandon plate armor, except that Rkou tribe that retains shoulder armor for decorative purposes only (and even then, it's designed to be light rather than protective, while mimicking actual shoulder armor)

[Birdlang]

I’m trying to make a Malayo-Polynesian language spoken in my alternate earth’s Indonesia. Maybe spoken in NTT or Sulawesi? Any tips from anyone who knows a lot about these languages. I’m looking into stuff like Ngadha (been listening to a lot of ja’i music and various genres of pop daerah and some old and new dangdut so maybe I can make a pop daerah or dangdut song in this language since I’m a keyboard player and I know a lot of Indonesian music). I was thinking the people would have a lot of terms related to music being skilled musicians.

[Xwtek]

I’m trying to make a Malayo-Polynesian language spoken in my alternate earth’s Indonesia. Maybe spoken in NTT or Sulawesi? Any tips from anyone who knows a lot about these languages. I’m looking into stuff like Ngadha (been listening to a lot of ja’i music and various genres of pop daerah and some old and new dangdut so maybe I can make a pop daerah or dangdut song in this language since I’m a keyboard player and I know a lot of Indonesian music). I was thinking the people would have a lot of terms related to music being skilled musicians.

Do javanese count?

[Xwtek]

I’m trying to make a Malayo-Polynesian language spoken in my alternate earth’s Indonesia. Maybe spoken in NTT or Sulawesi? Any tips from anyone who knows a lot about these languages. I’m looking into stuff like Ngadha (been listening to a lot of ja’i music and various genres of pop daerah and some old and new dangdut so maybe I can make a pop daerah or dangdut song in this language since I’m a keyboard player and I know a lot of Indonesian music). I was thinking the people would have a lot of terms related to music being skilled musicians.

Do javanese count? Because I am an ethnic Javanese.

Javanese's grammar is not that different from standard Indonesian. Both have SVO word order, possessive affixes, relational noun. The verb is conjugated for voice and optionally object. Javanese has active and passive voice, each with oblique applicative (-i) and causative voices(-kan). In Indonesian, the same suffix for causative voice is also used for beneficial applicative, depending on root. (Usually transitive verb gets applicative meaning, while intransitive verb gets causative meaning). But I don't know for Javanese. I'm actually more familiar with Indonesian voice system than Javanese one, but It's similiar.

For Indonesian voice system, here is the explanation

[Qwynegold]

I was going to post in the conlang fluency and have been toiling away with a couple of sentences. Right now I'm stuck because I don't have a word for "sure". The phrase in question is "I'm not sure what to do". What are some ways other languages handle this? For example, is the corresponding word always an adjective?

[Pabappa]

How about a verb, with the dependent clause in the subjunctive ( if you have it)? You could even have two verbs, one for "to be sure, certain that..." and one for its negative.

The etymology of the word in Poswa is from a word for "hug, grasp tightly " if you like concrete metaphors. Or else could use "true"+reflexive.