Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 10:47 pm
Ah, that’s interesting. Where does it happen in onsets?
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Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 10:50 pm
In my own idiolect at least I only have lateral consonants in careful speech and when geminate (e.g. in thoroughly /ˈθərəlli/ [θʁ̩ˤːʁˤɯːʟ̞ːi(ː)] ─ yes, that's right, it has a geminate in it, as it is derived from thorough /ˈθərəl/ [ˈθʁ̩ˤːʁˤɯ(ː)], which in the dialect here ends in /l/).
(In dialect initial /θ/ is often [t̪], but I chose to transcribe it as [θ] as this is a rather common pronunciation.)
(In dialect initial /θ/ is often [t̪], but I chose to transcribe it as [θ] as this is a rather common pronunciation.)
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 10:51 pm
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 10:53 pm
(When I first noticed this I was like "is this some strange speech impediment on my part?" but then from listening around, everyone else from here seemed to do it too outside careful speech.)
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 10:58 pm
(You are probably wondering how an /l/ got in thorough ─ my guess is that the final /o/ got unrounded partly due to being unstressed, and then got reanalyzed as /əl/ due to unstressed /o/ in words such as tomato and potato remaining as [o̞]; then in turn thoroughly changed by analogy so as to have /ll/ in it.)
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2024 11:53 pm
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 4:45 am
As I mentioned, I commonly actually pronounce that [ˈt̪ʁ̩ˤʁˤɯːʟ̞ːi(ː)].
If it's the pharyngealized uvular rhotics, well... that's just normal for the dialect here ─ it may seem odd for an English variety, and it may be our own innovation here or it may be due to substratum influence from various German dialects.
If it's the [ɯ], that's just the normal realization of syllabic /l/ here (note that it is near-close not close).
If it's the pairing of long syllabic consonants/vocalized consonants followed by non-syllabic consonants, that is the normal realization of /əR/ before a vowel here.
If it's the [ʟ̞ː], yes, that one's a mouthful ─ I'm not sure how I normally manage to reliably pronounce it considering I normally vocalize all other instances of /l/ to death.
Of course, all this combines to make something that looks horrific when transcribed but which really is easier to pronounce than you'd think if you're used to it.
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:40 am
I keep getting more and more curious about your local dialect - is there some public broadcast from it or some local songs that exhibit all those [ʁˤ]s and [ʟ̞]?Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 4:45 amAs I mentioned, I commonly actually pronounce that [ˈt̪ʁ̩ˤʁˤɯːʟ̞ːi(ː)].
If it's the pharyngealized uvular rhotics, well... that's just normal for the dialect here ─ it may seem odd for an English variety, and it may be our own innovation here or it may be due to substratum influence from various German dialects.
If it's the [ɯ], that's just the normal realization of syllabic /l/ here (note that it is near-close not close).
If it's the pairing of long syllabic consonants/vocalized consonants followed by non-syllabic consonants, that is the normal realization of /əR/ before a vowel here.
If it's the [ʟ̞ː], yes, that one's a mouthful ─ I'm not sure how I normally manage to reliably pronounce it considering I normally vocalize all other instances of /l/ to death.
Of course, all this combines to make something that looks horrific when transcribed but which really is easier to pronounce than you'd think if you're used to it.
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:48 am
Not that I am aware of. For an example of my careful speech look at https://youtu.be/Zqr_hNf6tD4 - I am the guy with the headphones on and the really bright background. Forgive my frequent pauses. Note that this is not a good example of the local dialect in a number of ways.
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:02 am
(Examples of how this is not representative of the local dialect include that (pre)glottalization is weaker; e.g. I don't glottalize and even aspirate the /t/ in written.)
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:43 pm
LOL at https://youtu.be/kk564tyKG64?si=zr_5ChQw9WXIgE-u ─ many of those pronunciations are completely foreign to me (but we do say [məːˈwɒki(ː)]*, and my dad at least, who is native to the Milwaukee area, does say [ˈʟ̞ɜːʑʁ̩ˤ(ː)]).
* People do also say [mɘːˈwɒki(ː)] or [mɪ̈ːˈwɒki(ː)], especially in more careful speech; this is the pronunciation you will probably hear from radio personalities here in the Milwaukee area.
(Oh and I have never once heard someone from here pronounce LOT as [æ].)
* People do also say [mɘːˈwɒki(ː)] or [mɪ̈ːˈwɒki(ː)], especially in more careful speech; this is the pronunciation you will probably hear from radio personalities here in the Milwaukee area.
(Oh and I have never once heard someone from here pronounce LOT as [æ].)
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 5:19 pm
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:00 pm
And that's just /ˈlɛʒər/. In my case I have the more typical (at least phonemically) /ˈliʒər/ [ˈʟ̞iːʑʁ̩ˤ(ː)]~[ˈɰiːʑʁ̩ˤ(ː)].
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:42 pm
Re [ʁ̩ˤ] — isn’t this just the famous American ‘bunched /r/’? It’s not too far off from my own [ʕʷ].
(What happens to /l/ is genuinely weird, though.)
(What happens to /l/ is genuinely weird, though.)
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:54 pm
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:06 pm
Well, [ʕ] does use the back of the tongue. But I’ve never been quite sure precisely what my /r/ is.
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:28 pm
I feel that Australian /r/ is roughly [ɻᵓˤ ~ ɰ̟ᵓˤ]. Which on reflection is not a great deal better than Travis's [ʁˤ].
Just for shits and giggles could you transcribe how you say "rural"?
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:32 pm
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:40 pm
Re: Sound Change Quickie Thread
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 9:00 pm
I have seen the "bunched /r/" described as palatal, though, and what I have certainly isn't palatal.
It's essentially what happened to Polish except minus the rounding.