Zompist Bboard Again

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 12:56 am

Darren wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 11:09 pm In a similar vein you can add redundant -en onto strong verbs without sounding too far of ( ... gotten,

i have bad news for you about the united states of america

pray tell

Darren wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 1:05 am

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 12:56 am

Darren wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 11:09 pm In a similar vein you can add redundant -en onto strong verbs without sounding too far of ( ... gotten,

i have bad news for you about the united states of america

pray tell

the past participle of "get" is already "gotten" (and many nonstandard varieties replace the simple past of common strong verbs with the past participle)

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 3:34 am

Darren wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 1:05 am

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 12:56 am

i have bad news for you about the united states of america

pray tell

the past participle of "get" is already "gotten" (and many nonstandard varieties replace the simple past of common strong verbs with the past participle)

both are true of auseng too

In my idiolect for certain verbs I have a strong tendency to use the preterite plus -en to form new past participles which contrast with the StdE ones in subtle ways (e.g. "I've eaten my sandwich" is distinct from "I've aten my sandwich"; the latter intuitively feels more like a pluperfect to me).

IMD "got" and "gotten" have slightly different meanings: "got" merely implies possesion, "gotten" emphasizes acquisition. E.g.

"I've got the money" = I have it, it's available
"I've gotten the money" = I've acquired it, recently enough that it's news

zompist wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:42 pm IMD "got" and "gotten" have slightly different meanings: "got" merely implies possesion, "gotten" emphasizes acquisition. E.g.

"I've got the money" = I have it, it's available
"I've gotten the money" = I've acquired it, recently enough that it's news

This is true for me as well.

zompist wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:42 pm IMD "got" and "gotten" have slightly different meanings: "got" merely implies possesion, "gotten" emphasizes acquisition. E.g.

"I've got the money" = I have it, it's available
"I've gotten the money" = I've acquired it, recently enough that it's news

"Have got" functions for me as a present-tense construction with perfective Aktionsart. And it's deponent; no other forms like *"had got" or *"to have got" or *"could have got" exist with that meaning.

Darren wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 7:06 pm

zompist wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 5:42 pm IMD "got" and "gotten" have slightly different meanings: "got" merely implies possesion, "gotten" emphasizes acquisition. E.g.

"I've got the money" = I have it, it's available
"I've gotten the money" = I've acquired it, recently enough that it's news

"Have got" functions for me as a present-tense construction with perfective Aktionsart. And it's deponent; no other forms like *"had got" or *"to have got" or *"could have got" exist with that meaning.

Interesting. Is substandard 'got' as an uninflected present similarly defective? For me, a Briton, the infinitive in this meaning.the first, a synonym of 'to have', doesn't feel natural, but the rest of the semantically present and formally perfect forms seem to exist.

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:08 pm Interesting. Is substandard 'got' as an uninflected present similarly defective? For me, a Briton, the infinitive in this meaning.the first, a synonym of 'to have', doesn't feel natural, but the rest of the semantically present and formally perfect forms seem to exist.

I think in AusEng present "got" is fairly rare and when it occurs it behaves exactly the same as "have got".

Darren wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:23 pm

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:08 pm Interesting. Is substandard 'got' as an uninflected present similarly defective? For me, a Briton, the infinitive in this meaning.the first, a synonym of 'to have', doesn't feel natural, but the rest of the semantically present and formally perfect forms seem to exist.

I think in AusEng present "got" is fairly rare and when it occurs it behaves exactly the same as "have got".

What happens with the sequence of tenses, as in standard 'I said I'd got time to spare'? Does that get replaced by 'I said I had time to spare'?

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:31 pm

Darren wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:23 pm

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:08 pm Interesting. Is substandard 'got' as an uninflected present similarly defective? For me, a Briton, the infinitive in this meaning.the first, a synonym of 'to have', doesn't feel natural, but the rest of the semantically present and formally perfect forms seem to exist.

I think in AusEng present "got" is fairly rare and when it occurs it behaves exactly the same as "have got".

What happens with the sequence of tenses, as in standard 'I said I'd got time to spare'? Does that get replaced by 'I said I had time to spare'?

Yeah, the former sounds at best very weird (although parseable). The second is what I'd usually use.

Darren wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:45 pm

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:31 pm

Darren wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:23 pm

I think in AusEng present "got" is fairly rare and when it occurs it behaves exactly the same as "have got".

What happens with the sequence of tenses, as in standard 'I said I'd got time to spare'? Does that get replaced by 'I said I had time to spare'?

Yeah, the former sounds at best very weird (although parseable). The second is what I'd usually use.

I am in agreement here. I would not call the former StE in the first place.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm

Darren wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:45 pm

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat May 25, 2024 8:31 pm
What happens with the sequence of tenses, as in standard 'I said I'd got time to spare'? Does that get replaced by 'I said I had time to spare'?

Yeah, the former sounds at best very weird (although parseable). The second is what I'd usually use.

I am in agreement here. I would not call the former StE in the first place.

Yet googling does find plenty of attestations-

"Remember I said I'd got Yellow Rattle seedlings coming up?"
"I said I'd got three brothers-in-law, right?"
"And I said I'd got a sense of what was right"

Still doesn't sound right to me though.