Conlang Random Thread

[bradrn]

You can't really approximate sound changes onto different language families to much. How would you approximate processes like umlaut. You can't start with a mostly monosyllabic language and end up with Torres-Banks style metaphony or approximate englishes process of final syllable reduction with an already monosyllabic language.

Old Chinese wasn’t monosyllabic, though.

[keenir]

You can't really approximate sound changes onto different language families to much.

You can if you're making a bogolang...I think one of the more famous examples of this is Wenydyk(sp).

How would you approximate processes like umlaut.

i thought Old/Middle English had umlauts.

[jal]

i thought Old/Middle English had umlauts.

Yes, but Old Chinese hadn't. I think the point is that the phonological processes that caused it in English can't happen in Old Chinese for lack of suitable environments.


JAL

[keenir]

i thought Old/Middle English had umlauts.

Yes, but Old Chinese hadn't. I think the point is that the phonological processes that caused it in English can't happen in Old Chinese for lack of suitable environments.

ah, okay. thanks for clarifying that.


I think bogolangs go more with the line from Tremors: "We must do what we can, with what we have."...which means allowing for areas where exact 1:1 correspondances can't happen.

[Travis B.]

You can't really approximate sound changes onto different language families to much. How would you approximate processes like umlaut. You can't start with a mostly monosyllabic language and end up with Torres-Banks style metaphony or approximate englishes process of final syllable reduction with an already monosyllabic language.

Old Chinese wasn’t monosyllabic, though.

Yes, but IIRC OC had only a limited number of multisyllabic words that were not sesquisyllables.

[jal]

I think bogolangs go more with the line from Tremors: "We must do what we can, with what we have."...which means allowing for areas where exact 1:1 correspondances can't happen.

Sure, for bogolangs you can do whatever you want, which can be quite fun. At least I had fun designing Fake Germanic and Fake Latinic, as they needn't follow any rules, if you don't want to.

Facinda linguam latinam fictem deliciare fuit.
Creating a fake latinic language was fun.


JAL

[linguistcat]

Yeah I was meaning like a bogolang. Since I knew OC did have at least some non-monosyllabic words, maybe instead of umlaut I could have some other change there that was similar.

I forgot last night but I have a related question. It's my understanding that where OC had second syllables, they were more constrained than the first/primary syllable. Are there other languages where this occurs? What are common constraints if so? Am I confused about how that worked in OC itself?

[Travis B.]

I forgot last night but I have a related question. It's my understanding that where OC had second syllables, they were more constrained than the first/primary syllable. Are there other languages where this occurs? What are common constraints if so? Am I confused about how that worked in OC itself?

Most multisyllabic words in OC were sesquisyllables consisting of two syllables, an initial unstressed syllable with a reduced vowel, and a second stressed syllable with a full vowel.

[linguistcat]

I forgot last night but I have a related question. It's my understanding that where OC had second syllables, they were more constrained than the first/primary syllable. Are there other languages where this occurs? What are common constraints if so? Am I confused about how that worked in OC itself?

Most multisyllabic words in OC were sesquisyllables consisting of two syllables, an initial unstressed syllable with a reduced vowel, and a second stressed syllable with a full vowel.

Ok so I got the order reversed more or less. Thanks for the correction ^^

[Travis B.]

It's hard to have umlaut in a sesquisyllable where not only is the stressed syllable final, but also the first syllable can only have a schwa for a vowel.

[Skookum]

Could do something like some Australian languages, where the initial consonant colours a following vowel then deletes. So maybe labials cause the stressed vowel to become rounded, while palatals cause them to front, before the entire unstressed syllable is dropped. So:

*pəkat > pəkot > kot
*šəkat > šəket > ket

Or it could colour the following schwa and trigger some kind of vowel harmony in the word:

*pəkat > pukat > pukot > ukot
*šəkat > šikat > šiket > iket

But both get pretty far from English-style sound change system...

[Travis B.]

Could do something like some Australian languages, where the initial consonant colours a following vowel then deletes. So maybe labials cause the stressed vowel to become rounded, while palatals cause them to front, before the entire unstressed syllable is dropped. So:

*pəkat > pəkot > kot
*šəkat > šəket > ket

Or it could colour the following schwa and trigger some kind of vowel harmony in the word:

*pəkat > pukat > pukot > ukot
*šəkat > šikat > šiket > iket

But both get pretty far from English-style sound change system...

At this point it wouldn't be English sound changes applied to OC, but entirely different sound changes applied to OC...