Linguistic Miscellany Thread

[Travis B.]

In medial and final position it is more stable, but there is some tendency to simplify it to /p/ there, i.e. some people say Appel and Kopp.

How much is this an innovation, and how much is this a substratum influence from the Central and Low German dialects you mention?

[WeepingElf]

In medial and final position it is more stable, but there is some tendency to simplify it to /p/ there, i.e. some people say Appel and Kopp.

How much is this an innovation, and how much is this a substratum influence from the Central and Low German dialects you mention?

I don't know (I am not really a dialectologist), but the substratum theory makes sense. I don't know to which degree /pf/ is eliminated in the Upper German area.

[jal]

In medial and final position it is more stable, but there is some tendency to simplify it to /p/ there, i.e. some people say Appel and Kopp.

Is this also in areas that used to have /pf/? And is this an independent simplification of the affricate, or is it a re-borrowing of original /p/ from lower-German dialects?


JAL

[bradrn]

An interesting find: https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=67231

[Lērisama]

(Also, but that's merely a tangent, this phoneme is on its way out, with teachers fighting an uphill battle saying things like Es heißt Pferd und nicht Ferd!)

As everyone knows, das Pferd heißt Pferd weil es fährt!

Surely that only works if you do merge /pf/ into /f/ (and merge /eː/ and /ɛː/, but that is less surprising). Unless that is to illustrate the merger

[Raphael]

Unless that is to illustrate the merger

Yes, it is mant to illustrate the merger(s).

[Travis B.]

From looking around, apparently /pf/ is preserved in Upper German and regiolects under its influence; one example I saw is that while the Westphalian German regiolect has /f/ in Pferd, Bairisch still has /pf/ as does the Bavarian German regiolect.

[AwfullyAmateur]

Le francais est difficile, mais le j'aime.

[Darren]

Le francais est difficile, mais je l'aime.

Le pronom d'objet direct toujours se trouve entre le pronom de sujet et le verbe.

[bradrn]

Le francais est difficile, mais je l'aime.

Le pronom d'objet direct toujours se trouve entre le pronom de sujet et le verbe.

Um… and it is here, isn’t it? le is between je and aime. Unless I’m being very very stupid and missing something obvious…?

EDIT: yes, I missed something obvious, which is that you modified AwfullyAmateur’s quote.

(I think it’s best to keep the other-language discussion in the Fluency thread.)

[Darren]

Le francais est difficile, mais je l'aime.

Le pronom d'objet direct toujours se trouve entre le pronom de sujet et le verbe.

Um… and it is here, isn’t it? le is between je and aime. Unless I’m being very very stupid and missing something obvious…?

EDIT: yes, I missed something obvious, which is that you modified AwfullyAmateur’s quote.

(I think it’s best to keep the other-language discussion in the Fluency thread.)

Oui, mais il started speaking en français so I pensé que I should reply in turn.